5 ms·
Poll: How many generations removed from immigration are you?
Today there was another article about immigration in the US, H1-Bs, immigrants as the driving force for innovation, etc., etc. This has been standard fare in programmer discussions, it seems, for a few years now. Well, I figure that HN represents a fairly diverse sample of the upper echelon of programming and idea generation, so why not put the question to the test?
Here's how it works: Take the shortest path from you to one of your ancestors that was "off the boat", so to speak. For example, my mother was born overseas, so I'd be 1 generation removed. If you are, yourself, an immigrant, then you'd be 0 generations removed.
I'm curious to see how this turns out...
- iigs 17y agoEnough that I don't know. I honestly can't name a relative that was definitely descended from an immigrant. I do have an approximate idea of my overall immigrant make-up though.
- RiderOfGiraffes 17y agoI'm not in the USA - does that mean you don't care? My family is still entirely in my country of origin, and they are at least four generations there. I am the first in my family to move to another country, hence I am an immigrant. I run two companies, employ 25 people, and don't have a visa. To avoid spoiling your USA-centric poll I haven't ticked an option.
- warwick 17y agoI already accidentally spoiled it. I voted for three generations, but I'm Canadian.
- mixmax 17y agoNeither Am I, but my grandmother was German. The poll doesn't have to be as USA-centric as you make it :-) On a sidenote, At her funeral a few years ago I found out that in 1908, at the age of 11, she was put on a train from Germany to Denmark with noone to pick her up at the other end. Her German family was in extreme poverty and gave her a one way ticket to another country, hoping that someone would pick her up and care for her when she arrived in Denmark. Noone did, so for the first few years she took care of herself, and was eventually adopted by a farming family where she got work. She grew up, had lots of kids, was a great mother and granny and was always there for people in hardship. Guess she knew what real hardship was. Stoic as she was she never told anyone aboout it, and it was only revealed at her funeral. She lived to be 93. Tough lady.
- edw519 17y agoThanks for the great story. I have many like that (but I'll spare you). My grandparents endured hardships I can't even imagine. They had nothing. Absolutely nothing. And they were 4 of the happiest people I ever met. Go figure.
- mixmax 17y agoHappiness doesn't correlate with material wealth. We often forget how much we have, how safe our lives are and how little we have to fear. When you hear stories like these, and there are many if you ask old folks that have been through wars famines and worse, you realise that happiness and living a full life is a mental exercise that is not dependant upon material wealth. That's why I wrote the post - I think it's worth saying. My grandmother was as happy an caring as one could possibly be, and it seems that your experience is the same. And they went through stuff we couldn't even dream of.
- vickrum 17y agoNot entirely sure how you deem this poll to be US-centric. It's the result of a discussion on immigration relating to innovation in the US, sure, but I understand the poll to be more of a look at whether that applies to the Hacker News community. My point is, vote! It's an interesting poll.
- RiderOfGiraffes 17y agoMy point is that to me, and perhaps to many who don't live in the USA, the entire question feels USA-centric. There's a significant difference between being a first generation Bulgaria->Sweden immigrant and being a first generation Germany->Netherlands immigrant. It's just fundamentally different, and I think a poll like this demonstrates a non-understanding of that. The thinking in the USA seems to be that either you're an immigrant or you're not, with no distinction between the variation of cultures. To a western European this kind of thinking seems very parochial. The very idea of asking this kind of question makes it seems USA-centric, because the USA has such a strong self-identification as the land of opportunity for immigrants. The discussions about H1-B visas indicates the schizoid nature of that identity. I've heard it said that the difference between Britain and the USA is that the British think 100 miles is a long way, while Americans think 100 years is a long time. Again, all of this is my impression, but you did ask.
- idlewords 17y agoThere are a number of countries besides the US that self-identify as "built by immigrants". Canada, Israel, and Australia come to mind. And in the United States too, there is a world of difference between being a Mexican, Dutch or Canadian immigrant. Like many big life changes, immigration is lived differently by everyone, but everyone will tend to look at the broad phenomenon through the lens of their own experience. Spoken as an Eastern European who moved to the states in childhood...
- jballanc 17y agoFrom what my wife tells me, you should add Turkey to that list too.
- jballanc 17y agoI don't think this has to be USA-centric. Immigrating is not a small decision, or an easy one! It would be interesting to know if there is a correlation between the willingness to do this and general creativity/ambition. I guess the flip-side would be to ask the question: Do people that stay in one place tend to become less creative or ambitious?
- nailer 17y agoTicked two - Dad came from Ireland to Australia, I was born in Australia but am now living in the UK, not sure if I'll stay here though...
- mahmud 17y agoI immigrated to the U.S. in my teens. Just moved to Australia 20 days ago :-P I think I am done "immigrating" in the classic now. Now I am just another yank living abroad :-)
- lil_cain 17y agoAye, I'd be the same as RiderOfGiraffes. The "How many generations from immigration" thing won't make any sense for large numbers of HN readers, who are from the UK/IE/Continental Europe. If anything, the question here would be how many generations has it been since large parts of your family emigrated
- cstross 17y agoI voted for two generations, but I'm British.
- endtime 17y ago0 - moved to NJ from London when I was 7. Before that, I think we had been in England for 5-6 generations (longer in some branches).
- rjurney 17y agoMost of my clan seem to have come over either in the 17th century (the last name was imported then), or were German engineers who immigrated in the 19th century. But it varies so much its hard to say exactly. I am very much a euromut. I wish I'd looked into it more while more of the earlier generations were still alive. My grandfather on my father's side descended from a line of engineers through North Carolina (and was much smarter than me). My mother's side were mostly farmers until a couple generations ago. Overall, its such a mix that it would be impossible to pin down what nations and tribes I am composed of, short of DNA analysis - which I have thought of doing - at https://www.23andme.com/ https://www.23andme.com/ $400 is a bit out of my price range at the moment, though. Check out their UI, though - its amazing, and could be the future of more advanced interfaces in biotech. I look forward to doing this analysis some day though, and I'm excited what kind of variety I don't know about I'll find. It would be fun to follow up such an analysis with a round the world trip to get in touch with the cultural roots of one's DNA :)
- Nosnik 17y agoDon't know the exact number of generations. The family on my mothers side immigrated to Denmark from Holland in the 17th century
- troels 17y ago∞ generations (I don't live in the United States of America)
- lucraft 17y agoBut if one of your kids emigrates to the US, you'll be -1, so it's probably better to say undefined at this point.
- Confusion 17y agoGermanic people have been living here (The Netherlands) since 250 BC. God only knows whether I'm a direct descendant from those settlers. My sister once did some geneanological research for a high school project, so I can definitely account for 6 generations, but it may well be a 100.
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- norbu09 17y agomoved from germany to new zealand some years ago - have a small company now and love my life again - think i'll stay :-)
- quilby 17y agoBecause Israel is a pretty young country most people living here are <= 2nd generation immigrants. I'm a 4th generation immigrant. 5 generations ago my family immigrated from Russia and created at least a couple of cities, which still exist today.
- ojbyrne 17y agoI was born in Dublin, Ireland and moved to Canada when I was 6, and I'm a Canadian citizen. So I guess that makes my answer 0. However I've since lived and/or worked in Pakistan, Spain, the UK and the US. Add to that that my grandmother was actually American, and "reverse-immigrated" back to Ireland, and the word "immigrant" doesn't quite capture it.
- furyg3 17y ago4th generation American... but I'm living abroad :)
- lucumo 17y agoPicked 5 or more, since infinity is most definitely more than 5.
- rgrieselhuber 17y agoTwo generations removed from my family's country of origin (France) and now an immigrant again (Japan) - not sure if it's permanent though.
- geoka 17y agoMy immediate family has migrated thrice in the last 15 years and it is not over yet. As long as I can remember, we always had plans to move somewhere else. I plan to end it when I reach the northern part of the Western Hemisphere (hopefully excluding Western Africa and South/Central Americas :)).
- markbao 17y agoI'm a 17-year-old student that, at the age of 5, immigrated from the People's Republic of China to the United States (originally settling in the suburbs of west Philadelphia (not born, but raised) then New Jersey and lastly Massachusetts.) I'm also an entrepreneur (on my 8th) and extremely thankful for the opportunities that the US presents (makes everything on http://markbao.com http://markbao.com possible.) Entrepreneurship in China probably isn't as bad as, say, North Korea, but definitely appreciate all the opportunities here. Reading that article, it's definitely true. Though I can't say that other places don't have the same opportunities, since I have no prior experience elsewhere.
- celticagent 17y agoOne grandfather was born in Sligo, Ireland. The other side of the family is related to Miles Standish's English family
- iamelgringo 17y agoBorn in US. Family lived as expatriates in Central America for 20 years, so I was raised in Honduras and Costa Rica. We returned to the US when I was 13.
- DrJokepu 17y agoWhile I don't live in the US, I am an immigrant to the United Kingdom (an EU citizen, so not even a real immigrant since I took the shortcuts and my home country is two hours away from Heathrow Airport)
- tokenadult 17y agoOf course I have multiple ancestral lines. (And my wife is a first-generation immigrant, born overseas, so my children choose the "1 generation" answer, even though I chose the "3 generations" answer.) Some of my ancestors arrived in the United States during the 1600s, and most were living in my current state of residence well before it became a state. But others arrived more recently. Not quite half of my ancestors came from the two European countries that lost the biggest percentages of their populations to emigration--Ireland and Norway--because they were dirt poor. But just more than half my ancestors were fairly well off in Europe, and came to America, in some cases as part of organized groups that formed "colonies" here in the 1800s, because they desired more freedom than their home countries provided, even though they were prospering in those home countries. My wife grew up in another country, and one of my children was born there during a subsequent period of residence there (but has only a claim to United States citizenship by facts of birth), so I am familiar with current immigrant communities. The United States still provides a lot of opportunities that are less abundant in other countries. And immigrants by virtue of having lived in two cultures usually arrive in the United States full of fresh ideas that result in their having a more creative approach to living here when they get here.
- zanshin 17y agoFrancis arrived in "America" in 1639, with his son, Caleb. Francis Caleb Abraham Nathan Daniel Isaac Isaac Jr. Hanford George Hanford Basil George me Which makes me 10 generations removed on my father's side. 44 points plus the bonus. My mother's side is murkier, but extends back to the mid-1700s, perhaps 7 generations removed. Again 44 points.
- tierack 17y agoThe shortest path would be my maternal grandmother, who came to the United States from Australia after WWII. The longest path (on my maternal grandfather's side) goes back to before the Revolution.
- grandalf 17y agosame w/ me
- Shocktroop75 17y ago13. My 10(great) grandfather was John Alden and came over on the Mayflower. I think I did the math right...
- compay 17y ago2 generations in my home country... but now I am an immigrant myself.
- davidw 17y agoI'm not really sure how to answer that. I am an American, and live in Italy, so I suppose that makes me an immigrant. We may go back to the US at some point, but my daughter is Italian/American, so I guess I'll check the first one: either I or my wife will always be an immigrant (or maybe both, like when we were in Austria). In terms of the US, some of the people on my mother's side were involved in founding Providence, RI, where Roger Williams went after being kicked out of MA. On my father's side, they were Danish immigrants at the end of the 19th century, or at least the ones we know something about.
- playwithfire 17y agoI'd probably say 5 or more generations, considering the whole slavery thing. Not sure about the part of my family not of African descent. The topic's actually never really come up before. Our family trees are a bit... obscure
- dangoldin 17y agoI came over from the Soviet Union when I was 5 with my parents seeking political asylum.
- lionheart 17y agoMe too. What part of the Soviet Union?
- dangoldin 17y agoLeningrad then. St Petersburg now. How about you?
- lionheart 17y agoTashkent. So its in Uzbekistan now.
- Evgeny 17y agoSt.Petersburg => Melbourne, AU for me.
- dangoldin 17y agoWhy'd you/your family decide to go to Australia? Is there a large former Soviet population there?
- Evgeny 17y agoThe population is not large ... I'd guess about 20,000 in cities like Melbourne and Syndey. But basically, when you look at factors like: English speaking, good climate, good lifestyle, has an established and understandable immigration program - the choices narrow down to Canada and Australia. And we do not like winter, so there you have it. I think it changed a bit since 2001 - now, I think, UK has established a migration program similar to AU. Don't know all details, but I would consider it if it existed in 2001. One big negative side of Australia is that it is so far away from everything.
- csomar 17y agoI'm not really sure, but we should be from this country since 300 or 400 may be! (In paper there's more than 6 generations! => 500 years at least)
- martythemaniak 17y agoYour nomenclature is a bit screwed up. Instead of saying "how many generations removed", the common way to refer to immigrants is "first generation" (the people who were born elsewhere), "second generation" (their kids) etc. I'm a 1.5-er. I was born elsewhere and my family came to Canada when I was 13, and like other 1.5-ers, while I fit in just fine, I do have a bit of a double-identity. The good part is that it gives you extra perspective on many things, while the bad part means you can never quite fit in 100%.
- s-phi-nl 17y agoI voted twice in the poll, for different sides of my family. Is this okay? The original post asks only for shortest generational distance to an immigrant, but does not specifically ask for no double voting.
- lionheart 17y agoI am an immigrant. Moved here from Russia when I was 5. However, my grandfather was born in New York. But his parents were born in Russia. My family has been moving back and forth between Russia and the United States for the last 150 years. It appears that we can't make up our minds.
- zppx 17y agoI am brazilian but I will answer it either way, Brazil is also a country were a large portion of the population are not far removed from immigrants, mainly Japanese, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, Germans and Lebanese, and in recent years Bolivian, Korean, Chinese and other lesser groups. My maternal grandfather was born in Vilnius then under German occupation, in 1916. He came to Brazil in 1939. My paternal grandfather was born in Morocco, in Taroudant, in 1907, he immigrated to Portugal in 1917 and to Brazil in 1932. So the answer for me is 2 generations. My grandmothers were distant cousins, and their family came from Morocco, from a city then called Mogador, to Brazil in 1827 and were among the first legal jewish immigrants in Brazil (there's a complicated history of jews in Portugal in 16th century), 5 generations ago. Now most of my family lives in Israel with exception of my immediate family, a cousin and an aunt, all my grandparents are deceased (ע״ה).
- tybris 17y agoDutch fishermen for at least 6 generations on (transitive) father's side. Although I decided to become an expat computer scientist/software engineer.
- mannicken 17y agoCame to US when I was 12 from Ukraine, came to Ukraine when I was 1 or so from Russia.
- lutorm 17y agoI ticked 0 because I'm a Swede living in the US, but that's not entirely accurate because I'm just a nonresident at this point, not an immigrant (at least in the eyes of the state).
- jballanc 17y agoI think immigration is more about what you do (or are willing to do), and less about legal status.
- TallGuyShort 17y agoI'm an immigrant myself, and the 3 generations before me have all emigrated from a different country before having kids. I guess I have the immigration gene.
- lee 17y ago1 My parents were "boat people" from Vietnam and settled here in Canada.
- bluishgreen 17y agoIf I didn't have to wade through the immigration process over here, I would have started my own company many years back. My story is not unique. The story goes that things that do not kill you make you stronger. So one might theorize that this is one more obstacle that will separate the men from the boys. It is just a test of your relentless resourcefulness. But its only a theory. I feel that immigration rules in the US are one of those things that kill the boys and leave behind dead men. Agreed, I set sail on a boat, a flying one, on a calculation that I have better chances over here than where I started from. So I stand and fight for a 5% chance over a 2% one. But its a depressing fight. So if you are listening to this and in one of the other countries that wants your own silicon valley this is the silver bullet. Make immigration laws strictly adhere to common sense without exception. In the meantime let me go back and drive the American Innovation and be pissed on by politicians trying to get some votes.
- access_denied 17y agoDon't know if this counts, but my family immigrated during WW2 from Prussia (Soviet tanks rolling in..) to western Germany. Like Americans we had to build everything from scratch in town were everybody else was a stranger.
- kuzux 17y ago3 generations. My paternal grand-grandparents came to Turkey from Razgrad,Bulgaria and my maternal grand-grandparents came from Thessalonica.
- quizbiz 17y agoMoved from Israel.
- maarek 17y agoMy folks came to Maryland in 1660 or so, on the first colony ship. They were Catholic (illegal at the time in Britain) and looking to start somewhere more Papist-friendly.
- nopassrecover 17y ago(Australian) but shortest is 2 generations (from England). Longest is undefined generations (have an Aboriginal ancestor so assuming at least 40,000 years). The longest I can define is 5 (from England).