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I think beginners should stop following trends and focus on building a solid foundation. I know that can sound ridiculous if you need to get a job, but you'll b

by 10098 13y ago

I think beginners should stop following trends and focus on building a solid foundation. I know that can sound ridiculous if you need to get a job, but you'll be doing yourself a favor. I mean, it's ok to learn enough to become a hireable code monkey (even though it's more difficult than it sounds) and earn something to support yourself, but i think it's way more important to learn core skills instead of frameworks that will inevitably become obsolete in a few years' time.

increment_i 13y ago
This isn't about frameworks but I suppose what you've said is true. I guess there's no reason to frighten newcomers with the truth of just how far down the rabbit hole goes...
Joeri 13y ago
I completely agree. Everyone who learns programming should start with something practical, ruby on rails, angular, whatever, but then go down the stack instead of sideways. Don't add more and more frameworks, learn what's beneath the framework. Learn what every layer in the system does, right down to the level of individual transistors on the cpu. There should be no magic anymore. If every part of the system is understandable (in theory) then any problem with it is solveable. Also, most frameworks become variations on a theme, and almost nothing is truly novel. That last part is what made me almost quit programming, upon the realization that the industry was not on a long march of progression, but on a cycle of reinvention, where each generation rediscovers the knowledge of previous generations in different flavors, especially in software. If more people learned the fundamentals they could discern between that which is new and that which is novel and spend their time accordingly. The industry as a whole would be better off.
leoedin 13y ago
I think I would have struggled to find any motivation to keep going when I was starting out if I was just building command line scripts. Frameworks can hide the confusing stuff and let you build functional things quickly, which is often great for motivation. I do mostly agree with you though. The more directions I approach software development from (different languages, frameworks, platforms), the more understanding I have of the different layers. If you approach a project knowing that you could write the whole thing from scratch, but choose not to, when limitations inevitably bubble up in the framework you're using it's a lot easier to work around them than if you're just copying and pasting stuff from tutorials without even understanding what the framework is trying to do. Generally, though, programming skills are developed through practice, and practice requires motivation. It's hard to maintain motivation when you're constantly fighting the kinds of errors that frameworks completely abstract.

by 10098 13y ago

increment_i 13y ago

This isn't about frameworks but I suppose what you've said is true. I guess there's no reason to frighten newcomers with the truth of just how far down the rabbit hole goes...

Joeri 13y ago

I completely agree. Everyone who learns programming should start with something practical, ruby on rails, angular, whatever, but then go down the stack instead of sideways. Don't add more and more frameworks, learn what's beneath the framework. Learn what every layer in the system does, right down to the level of individual transistors on the cpu. There should be no magic anymore. If every part of the system is understandable (in theory) then any problem with it is solveable. Also, most frameworks become variations on a theme, and almost nothing is truly novel. That last part is what made me almost quit programming, upon the realization that the industry was not on a long march of progression, but on a cycle of reinvention, where each generation rediscovers the knowledge of previous generations in different flavors, especially in software. If more people learned the fundamentals they could discern between that which is new and that which is novel and spend their time accordingly. The industry as a whole would be better off.

leoedin 13y ago

I think I would have struggled to find any motivation to keep going when I was starting out if I was just building command line scripts. Frameworks can hide the confusing stuff and let you build functional things quickly, which is often great for motivation. I do mostly agree with you though. The more directions I approach software development from (different languages, frameworks, platforms), the more understanding I have of the different layers. If you approach a project knowing that you could write the whole thing from scratch, but choose not to, when limitations inevitably bubble up in the framework you're using it's a lot easier to work around them than if you're just copying and pasting stuff from tutorials without even understanding what the framework is trying to do. Generally, though, programming skills are developed through practice, and practice requires motivation. It's hard to maintain motivation when you're constantly fighting the kinds of errors that frameworks completely abstract.