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Maybe I'm just overly sensitive on this subject, but my immediate reaction when I see this headline (and the quote here from Zaheer) is how Isreal and Jordan is

Maybe I'm just overly sensitive on this subject, but my immediate reaction when I see this headline (and the quote here from Zaheer) is how Isreal and Jordan is emphesized as independent states, while Palestinians is cut off in their own second-class group, seemingly without any country or independence (and hence rights). Why? They've been recognized as a sovereign state for ages by pretty much everyone except Israel, which keeps stealing more of their land. In turn their homes, fertile lands and crops. And now even their water. Why do we need to push Israel's agenda? Why these shady and slimy tactics?

ars 13y ago
How are they a sovereign state? The land was Israel for a millennia till conquered by Arabs and then the Ottomans. (To summarize massively.) And now it's back to being Israel. There never was a country of "Palestine". People keep saying: > which keeps stealing more of their land Which isn't at all true - Palestinians are stealing land from Israel. Either you believe in the right of conquest or you don't. If you do then Israel won that land and that's done. If you don't then go back as far as you can and it's Israel. (The Canaanites don't exist anymore.) In no version do the Palestinians have any claim except that they are living there so they have to figure out a way to coexist. That makes them residents or citizens, but it doesn't make a country. > And now even their water. It's not their water. Even Palestinians don't think it's their water. It's opinions like yours that keep fanning the flames of war by giving them something else to fight over that was never a reason before.
- wfunction 13y ago
  If you go back that far then you have to agree America isn't a sovereign state either, right?
  - ars 13y ago
    Personally I believe in the right of conquest, so I don't have to agree about that. I mentioned it just in case there is someone who doesn't believe in it (which would cause them no end of trouble dealing with the reality of current nations - but somehow only Israel is singled out). Israel won those wars (which it did not start I should point out) over that land and that's all there is to it.
tzs 13y ago
The situation in regard to what is and is not a state is more complicated and subtle than you make it out to be. This Quora answer provides a good summary of the situation: http://qr.ae/IsPAq http://qr.ae/IsPAq

ars 13y ago

How are they a sovereign state? The land was Israel for a millennia till conquered by Arabs and then the Ottomans. (To summarize massively.) And now it's back to being Israel. There never was a country of "Palestine". People keep saying: > which keeps stealing more of their land Which isn't at all true - Palestinians are stealing land from Israel. Either you believe in the right of conquest or you don't. If you do then Israel won that land and that's done. If you don't then go back as far as you can and it's Israel. (The Canaanites don't exist anymore.) In no version do the Palestinians have any claim except that they are living there so they have to figure out a way to coexist. That makes them residents or citizens, but it doesn't make a country. > And now even their water. It's not their water. Even Palestinians don't think it's their water. It's opinions like yours that keep fanning the flames of war by giving them something else to fight over that was never a reason before.

wfunction 13y ago
If you go back that far then you have to agree America isn't a sovereign state either, right?
- ars 13y ago
  Personally I believe in the right of conquest, so I don't have to agree about that. I mentioned it just in case there is someone who doesn't believe in it (which would cause them no end of trouble dealing with the reality of current nations - but somehow only Israel is singled out). Israel won those wars (which it did not start I should point out) over that land and that's all there is to it.

tzs 13y ago

The situation in regard to what is and is not a state is more complicated and subtle than you make it out to be. This Quora answer provides a good summary of the situation: http://qr.ae/IsPAq http://qr.ae/IsPAq