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I actually don't find this story all too surprising. What really irked me was the piece on how Japan commodified various aspects of a relationship (i.e. "cuddle

by yarou 13y ago

I actually don't find this story all too surprising. What really irked me was the piece on how Japan commodified various aspects of a relationship (i.e. "cuddle cafes"[0], those bar/club places where people pay top dollar to tell their problems to complete strangers). Maybe this is the logical "next step" of human relationships; however, such a conclusion is thoroughly disheartening. [0]http://www.vice.com/the-vice-guide-to-travel/the-japanese-love-industry http://www.vice.com/the-vice-guide-to-travel/the-japanese-lo...

saraid216 13y ago
> Maybe this is the logical "next step" of human relationships It might be a logical one, but it's not one we ought to aim for. There's a weak, but building movement going on trying to push us in a different direction. See stuff like Jeremy Rifkin's RSA talk or Enrique Peñalosa's TED talk. I'm sorry about the vagueness, but I'm having trouble coming up with a way to summarize it usefully. =/
- jseliger 13y ago
  It might be a logical one, but it's not one we ought to aim for I'm also not convinced, for reasons related to Coase's "The Nature of the Firm" that I describe in more detail here: http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2012/08/25/an-economic-model-of-paid-sex-coases-the-nature-of-the-firm-gains-from-trade-and-the-gift-economy/ http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2012/08/25/an-economic-model-o... . The short version is that people reap efficiency gains from not having to negotiate every interaction, which probably points to ongoing couple / small group formation.
- yarou 13y ago
  I think fundamentally, people are growing more lonely as we shift from the purely physical realm into the abstract world of the web. You have startups like Grouper trying to solve loneliness, but in reality they may even be exacerbating it. We all get a little lonely sometimes, and I don't think there's a viable substitute to physically meeting someone. Barring a fundamental change in our brain chemistry.
  - saraid216 13y ago
    Which is why I reference movements like the one Peñalosa is part of. (I don't have enough easy references.) It isn't something that can be well-answered by startups. Profit motive defines the shift from the purely physical realm into the abstract world. That's what money is: it abstracts trust and makes it less necessary. It makes us more efficient for the price of less effort spent on trust. The answer isn't to remove money but rather to provide money-less connection points. Create debts that aren't monetary but personal and non-transferable. Talk to people for no better reason than to get to know them. Find out what makes them tick and what would make them happy. That kind of thing. It's... complex.
shadowfox 13y ago
> where people pay top dollar to tell their problems to complete strangers In a way that is what often happens in therapy too. (Of course therapists tend to have training)
- mschuster91 13y ago
  And, well, in a lot of cases psychological training is absolutely needed!
Mikeb85 13y ago
> places where people pay top dollar to tell their problems to complete strangers Isn't this what bartenders are for?

by yarou 13y ago

saraid216 13y ago

> Maybe this is the logical "next step" of human relationships It might be a logical one, but it's not one we ought to aim for. There's a weak, but building movement going on trying to push us in a different direction. See stuff like Jeremy Rifkin's RSA talk or Enrique Peñalosa's TED talk. I'm sorry about the vagueness, but I'm having trouble coming up with a way to summarize it usefully. =/

jseliger 13y ago
It might be a logical one, but it's not one we ought to aim for I'm also not convinced, for reasons related to Coase's "The Nature of the Firm" that I describe in more detail here: http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2012/08/25/an-economic-model-of-paid-sex-coases-the-nature-of-the-firm-gains-from-trade-and-the-gift-economy/ http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2012/08/25/an-economic-model-o... . The short version is that people reap efficiency gains from not having to negotiate every interaction, which probably points to ongoing couple / small group formation.
yarou 13y ago
I think fundamentally, people are growing more lonely as we shift from the purely physical realm into the abstract world of the web. You have startups like Grouper trying to solve loneliness, but in reality they may even be exacerbating it. We all get a little lonely sometimes, and I don't think there's a viable substitute to physically meeting someone. Barring a fundamental change in our brain chemistry.
- saraid216 13y ago
  Which is why I reference movements like the one Peñalosa is part of. (I don't have enough easy references.) It isn't something that can be well-answered by startups. Profit motive defines the shift from the purely physical realm into the abstract world. That's what money is: it abstracts trust and makes it less necessary. It makes us more efficient for the price of less effort spent on trust. The answer isn't to remove money but rather to provide money-less connection points. Create debts that aren't monetary but personal and non-transferable. Talk to people for no better reason than to get to know them. Find out what makes them tick and what would make them happy. That kind of thing. It's... complex.

shadowfox 13y ago

> where people pay top dollar to tell their problems to complete strangers In a way that is what often happens in therapy too. (Of course therapists tend to have training)

mschuster91 13y ago
And, well, in a lot of cases psychological training is absolutely needed!

Mikeb85 13y ago

> places where people pay top dollar to tell their problems to complete strangers Isn't this what bartenders are for?