7 ms·

OK, Milt Olin, I'll start writing again

578 points by revorad 13y ago

leokun 13y ago
Riding bikes is super dangerous. I always slow down and give bikes a lot of space. I also think bike riders should ride on slower, non-busy roads whenever possible, but I'm not at all blaming bike riders.
- mikegreco 13y ago
  This doesn't really tell the whole story. Riding bikes is dangerous, but the real danger here is driving a car. When you're driving a car you are in charge of a multi-thousand pound hunk of metal with more momentum than most people can even comprehend, and the slightest jerk of a wheel can send it careening off in a completely different direction in milliseconds. On a bike or walking with your own two feet, you're always in danger when the operator of a car isn't performing their due responsibilities. To Sivers, I'm sorry for your loss. This article is an inspiration, and a remarkably poignant commentary on how to best make use of our fleeting time.
  - acjohnson55 13y ago
    Gotta agree with you here. Maybe with more intelligent car systems and advancements in mass transit, the future can be brighter and safer.
- jseliger 13y ago
  Riding bikes is super dangerous Without some pretty sophisticated data, I'm not sure this is true. About 30,000 people die in car accidents every year, which I wrote more about here: http://blog.seliger.com/2013/11/10/foundations-give-away-five-percent-of-their-assets-a-year-typhoon-haiyan-shows-why-you-should-act-now-not-later/ http://blog.seliger.com/2013/11/10/foundations-give-away-fiv... . I don't know how many died on bikes or how many miles people bike versus how many they drive. But car accidents are so common that even deaths often don't register on the news. There's also an interesting question about the effects of biking and other exercise on health; riding may have salutary health benefits that driving doesn't. I don't know of any studies that examine such effects but would be happy to see any studies on the issue.
  - diziet 13y ago
    The injury rate per mile is about 2.5x higher while cycling vs riding a car, though low on a per hour basis. Bicycle: .039 fatalities per million miles Car: .016 fatalities per million miles http://www.bellboycott.com/cached/www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm http://www.bellboycott.com/cached/www.kenkifer.com/bikepages... I think the biggest problem is the lack of control. If someone makes a mistake, has a seizure, loses control etc, and crashes into a cyclist, the cyclist has less 'protection' around them.
    - hdevalence 13y ago
      It would be interesting to see numbers for a country like the Netherlands that actually has cycling infrastructure.
      - Munksgaard 13y ago
        Here's some data for Denmark: According to [0], 22 people were killed on bicycles in 2012. Compare that to 81 for an ordinary car, 31 pedestrians and 11 on a motorcycle. Accoring to [1], bike rides make up 16% of all trips in Denmark, but only 3.6% of the actual number of kilometers travelled (which isn't really surprising). According to [2], car rides make up 46% of all trips. So even though the number of car rides are only almost 3 times bigger than the number of bike rides, the number of fatal accidents are actually almost 4 times bigger. Edit: Oh, passengers aren't included in the 46%. They make up 12% according to [2]. So my last point isn't completely valid, its more like they're equally fatal. [0]: http://www.statbank.dk/ http://www.statbank.dk/ [1]: http://www.modelcenter.transport.dtu.dk/Transportvaneundersoegelsen/TU-udgivelser/Faktaark-om-cykeltrafik-i-Danmark-2012 http://www.modelcenter.transport.dtu.dk/Transportvaneunderso... [2]: http://www.modelcenter.transport.dtu.dk/Transportvaneundersoegelsen/TU-udgivelser/TU-rapport-om-danskernes-transportvaner-2012 http://www.modelcenter.transport.dtu.dk/Transportvaneunderso...
        colomon 13y ago
        Am I missing something? If bike kilometers are 3.6% of car kilometers, then aren't there 25x the car kilometers and only 4x the car fatalities?
- Widdershin 13y ago
  I'm curious as to what the point you are trying to make is.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- corresation 13y ago
  "On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero." This was a cyclist doing, by all accounts, everything absolutely and completely right. Speculation is absolutely useless if not crass right now given this terrible, unnecessary loss, but historic odds favor the driver (an officer) being distracted in some manner, which is a growing concern that everyone in this industry needs to keep in mind.
  - melling 13y ago
    Yes, speculation is useless. Remove the speculation and let drivers know that any incident will be recorded then everyone will stay away from cyclists.
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
  Depends how you count. Per mile, cycling is safer than walking. http://road.cc/content/news/68212-dft-casualty-statistics-rank-driving-cycling-walking-and-motorcycling-risk http://road.cc/content/news/68212-dft-casualty-statistics-ra...
- malandrew 13y ago
  I pretty much never get angry, but if I am a passenger in a car where the driver acts aggressively towards pedestrians or bicyclists, I totally lose my shit. Part of getting drivers to behave better is to provide disparagement of driving aggressively from within their own car. You'd be surprised how many drivers are completely non-chalant to actively dismissive of the care and attention they should pay to others on the road not protected by a 6000 lb metal shell. That metal shell fosters road rage and road carelessness by disconnecting the drivers from the world around them. However, that metal shell won't protect them from being judged by their passengers.
- bowlofpetunias 13y ago
  Riding bikes is only dangerous in countries where murdering cyclists is apparently okay. I found the account of the accident shocking. Of course being from the Netherlands I'm extremely biased, but from my perspective these kind of American "driver kills cyclist" accidents I keep reading are as insane as "accidentally" killing someone whilst "accidentally" pointing a loaded gun at their heads. Even with a car it's hard to kill a cyclist by accident, unless the accident results in a very unlucky fall.
  - tripzilch 13y ago
    ... and to think we don't even wear helmets on our bikes. And it's not that Dutch skulls happen to be tougher.
- Steltek 13y ago
  Having cars around is super dangerous. It's rare for a cyclist or pedestrian to just trip themselves and fall over dead. It takes a car with a negligent or ioditic driver to run them over (and consequently, not get prosecuted because it's implied that the cyclist had it coming!). Take away the cars and instantaneously, we would eliminates hundreds of thousands of deaths. Factor in increased exercise and it's almost laughable that we're not doing this.
- agilebyte 13y ago
  Was going through stats the other day to see when is it more dangerous: 1) Under low light conditions 2) When trucks are around 3) When said trucks turn left and you are going straight (for people cycling/driving on the left) No surprises there.
sivers 13y ago
Wow. Thanks for the unexpected post & votes here, HN buddies. This community is an ongoing inspiration.
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  The sentiment you express is very true. Time is limited, make every day count. As I got older that became more and more clear to me.
  - sivers 13y ago
    A big reason I haven't been posting anything in months (years!) is I think what I have to say isn't very novel or interesting. "Time is limited, make every day count." Yeah yeah yeah. We know. Everyone knows. Took a sudden death and a lot of sobbing today to make me say fuggit and just write, without worrying about being novel or unique. I ordinarily don't care about upvotes, but something so unoriginal (but hopefully important) as this getting upvoted by my peers on HN is really encouraging.
    - buugs 13y ago
      You may not always say something novel or unique but I have enjoyed some of your posts immensely and if you aren't writing you may never write the next post that greatly affects someone. Thanks for your writing, and sorry for your loss.
    - javajosh 13y ago
      It's good that you are adding your voice to the chorus, even if someone else might be singing the same notes. There is no law that says that truth and insight, once spoken, should never be spoken again! :) Welcome back.
    - jw_ 13y ago
      I also find myself thinking that my writing is not original enough to bother sharing, or my music, or my programming side projects. If nothing else your post has got me thinking about the need to just get over "lack of originality" as an excuse for not doing something. Originality doesn't just show up, torn from the thigh of Zeus - we need to start putting stuff out there now to get where we want. For what it's worth, I think the personal tone of this piece makes it interesting. The theme might be "time is limited" but it would be selling it short to simply reduce it down to that.
3pt14159 13y ago
sivers your work is some of the truly best. I'm so sorry for your loss, I've never lost a close friend so I have no idea what you are going through, but obviously if there is anything we can do to help just put out the word.
sergiotapia 13y ago
Sorry for your loss. I used to ride my bike everywhere when I was in my late teens; these days I can't imagine doing that. All it takes is one distracted driver to cause terrible loss.
iamthepieman 13y ago
Sivers, may you be at peace. It took a death in my family to make me realize that I needed to "start writing again". That was several years ago and I see myself in some of the old ruts and in some that are newly worn. I wonder how many tragedies before I learn my lesson.
hudibras 13y ago
You try to do everything right (helmet, bike lane, daylight riding), and then a police car runs you over and kills you. Sometimes I don't know why I bother doing anything except spending time with my family. I tell myself that I've got to pay the bills, be an adult, etc., but is it really worth it when everything can be over in an instant? Now I'm depressing myself. Maybe reading another couple HN articles will cheer me up...
- visakanv 13y ago
  Spend time with your family, please do. That matters. But don't let the possibility of loss prevent you from learning, from growing, from experiencing joy. Protect and insure yourself, yes. But don't turn away from living. Create and build things you can be proud of (especially family). internet hug
- xivzgrev 13y ago
  It's a fair question, and I think we all need to strike that balance. Spend 100% of time with family, and you cease to be your own person, your identity linked with theirs. Spend no time with your family, and you're filled with regret when it's too late. Right now my parents live across the country, and given realities of day to day life (economics, vacation days, etc) it's tough to make it work for in person. But we talk every few days to bridge divide. They still feel far away though. So all I can say is find a way to see your family a little more than you do now. Keep repeating until you find your balance.
- danieldk 13y ago
  I tell myself that I've got to pay the bills, be an adult, etc., but is it really worth it when everything can be over in an instant? One of the reasons we work is to obtain the means to do nice things with family. E.g. travelling to some beautiful mountain range and enjoying it together. Family life becomes better with variety and new experiences. We should draw the line at somewhere. If we are working ten hour days six days a week, we have lost balance. Unfortunately, the income distribution seems to become so bad that a considerable amount of the population can do nothing else than to work.
donretag 13y ago
The other thread regarding Milt's death: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6875151 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6875151
- sivers 13y ago
  Thanks for posting that in these comments. I hadn't seen that thread.
visakanv 13y ago
I've always been bothered by what I call this 'life-perspective problem", and of course, I'm always bothered more when something horrible like this happens. (The preceding statement has its own problem buried in it- because something horrible is always happening, at every second.) I've spoken about it in other forms- "procrastination should be solved by lighting fires, not filling buckets" and so on. There is powerful emotional energy to be harnessed, but a lot of us (maybe just me, but clearly others too) have no idea how to manipulate it effectively, so we typically go without it. When we do get a flash of inspiration, the energy needs to go into a system where it generates something lasting- otherwise we just get the one-off blogpost or product that doesn't go anywhere. We get tired and everyday life dehumanizes us again. It's the same central idea: Can we modify our circumstances and environment such that they remind us of the things that matter, in a way that disrupts us from settling into sub-optimal comfort zones? I used to think that maybe this was a self-indulgent problem that I had, simply romanticizing the moping around, but clearly it afflicts even highly productive and accomplished persons like Mr. Sivers. Clearly this is a broader human problem- our inability to contextualize things, to see the bigger broader picture except when it's too late, or when we're unexpectedly inspired. Is meditation the solution? I think meditation is a practice that encourages the broadening of perspective, but I'm sure there are other ways to reach the same destination- I'm sure we could design for it into our media, into our daily lives. There is some very meaningful work to be done in this "perspective/reminder" space, but I don't know what exactly, and I don't know how to do it. But I'd like to get involved in it somehow, someday, before it's too late. I hope this is helpful to someone. Thanks for sharing, and thanks for reading.
- andrewb 13y ago
  Cheers. I found it helpful. I too would like to have an answer but having the question is the most important thing. http://kiriakakis.net/comics/mused/a-day-at-the-park http://kiriakakis.net/comics/mused/a-day-at-the-park
- nataraja 13y ago
  Meditation helps. I also recommend mindful use of psychedelics.
- 13y ago
menosee 13y ago
Derek -- This is a nice piece in a difficult time. I am childhood friends with one of Milt's sons and know his family appreciates all the love being sent their way. Thank you for sharing with everyone.
sidcool 13y ago
Sorry for your loss, Derek.
javindo 13y ago
Wow, just like that. This was amazingly sombre, sorry for your loss and thank you for your inspirational words.
camkego 13y ago
Setting up dual booting two OSes is not a good use of my time?
jarnix 13y ago
They show this on TV in your country ? they don't have anything else to talk about ?

578 points by revorad 13y ago

Riding bikes is super dangerous. I always slow down and give bikes a lot of space. I also think bike riders should ride on slower, non-busy roads whenever possible, but I'm not at all blaming bike riders.

mikegreco 13y ago
This doesn't really tell the whole story. Riding bikes is dangerous, but the real danger here is driving a car. When you're driving a car you are in charge of a multi-thousand pound hunk of metal with more momentum than most people can even comprehend, and the slightest jerk of a wheel can send it careening off in a completely different direction in milliseconds. On a bike or walking with your own two feet, you're always in danger when the operator of a car isn't performing their due responsibilities. To Sivers, I'm sorry for your loss. This article is an inspiration, and a remarkably poignant commentary on how to best make use of our fleeting time.
- acjohnson55 13y ago
  Gotta agree with you here. Maybe with more intelligent car systems and advancements in mass transit, the future can be brighter and safer.
jseliger 13y ago
Riding bikes is super dangerous Without some pretty sophisticated data, I'm not sure this is true. About 30,000 people die in car accidents every year, which I wrote more about here: http://blog.seliger.com/2013/11/10/foundations-give-away-five-percent-of-their-assets-a-year-typhoon-haiyan-shows-why-you-should-act-now-not-later/ http://blog.seliger.com/2013/11/10/foundations-give-away-fiv... . I don't know how many died on bikes or how many miles people bike versus how many they drive. But car accidents are so common that even deaths often don't register on the news. There's also an interesting question about the effects of biking and other exercise on health; riding may have salutary health benefits that driving doesn't. I don't know of any studies that examine such effects but would be happy to see any studies on the issue.
- diziet 13y ago
  The injury rate per mile is about 2.5x higher while cycling vs riding a car, though low on a per hour basis. Bicycle: .039 fatalities per million miles Car: .016 fatalities per million miles http://www.bellboycott.com/cached/www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm http://www.bellboycott.com/cached/www.kenkifer.com/bikepages... I think the biggest problem is the lack of control. If someone makes a mistake, has a seizure, loses control etc, and crashes into a cyclist, the cyclist has less 'protection' around them.
  - hdevalence 13y ago
    It would be interesting to see numbers for a country like the Netherlands that actually has cycling infrastructure.
    - Munksgaard 13y ago
      Here's some data for Denmark: According to [0], 22 people were killed on bicycles in 2012. Compare that to 81 for an ordinary car, 31 pedestrians and 11 on a motorcycle. Accoring to [1], bike rides make up 16% of all trips in Denmark, but only 3.6% of the actual number of kilometers travelled (which isn't really surprising). According to [2], car rides make up 46% of all trips. So even though the number of car rides are only almost 3 times bigger than the number of bike rides, the number of fatal accidents are actually almost 4 times bigger. Edit: Oh, passengers aren't included in the 46%. They make up 12% according to [2]. So my last point isn't completely valid, its more like they're equally fatal. [0]: http://www.statbank.dk/ http://www.statbank.dk/ [1]: http://www.modelcenter.transport.dtu.dk/Transportvaneundersoegelsen/TU-udgivelser/Faktaark-om-cykeltrafik-i-Danmark-2012 http://www.modelcenter.transport.dtu.dk/Transportvaneunderso... [2]: http://www.modelcenter.transport.dtu.dk/Transportvaneundersoegelsen/TU-udgivelser/TU-rapport-om-danskernes-transportvaner-2012 http://www.modelcenter.transport.dtu.dk/Transportvaneunderso...
      - colomon 13y ago
        Am I missing something? If bike kilometers are 3.6% of car kilometers, then aren't there 25x the car kilometers and only 4x the car fatalities?
Widdershin 13y ago
I'm curious as to what the point you are trying to make is.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
corresation 13y ago
"On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero." This was a cyclist doing, by all accounts, everything absolutely and completely right. Speculation is absolutely useless if not crass right now given this terrible, unnecessary loss, but historic odds favor the driver (an officer) being distracted in some manner, which is a growing concern that everyone in this industry needs to keep in mind.
- melling 13y ago
  Yes, speculation is useless. Remove the speculation and let drivers know that any incident will be recorded then everyone will stay away from cyclists.
moocowduckquack 13y ago
Depends how you count. Per mile, cycling is safer than walking. http://road.cc/content/news/68212-dft-casualty-statistics-rank-driving-cycling-walking-and-motorcycling-risk http://road.cc/content/news/68212-dft-casualty-statistics-ra...
malandrew 13y ago
I pretty much never get angry, but if I am a passenger in a car where the driver acts aggressively towards pedestrians or bicyclists, I totally lose my shit. Part of getting drivers to behave better is to provide disparagement of driving aggressively from within their own car. You'd be surprised how many drivers are completely non-chalant to actively dismissive of the care and attention they should pay to others on the road not protected by a 6000 lb metal shell. That metal shell fosters road rage and road carelessness by disconnecting the drivers from the world around them. However, that metal shell won't protect them from being judged by their passengers.
bowlofpetunias 13y ago
Riding bikes is only dangerous in countries where murdering cyclists is apparently okay. I found the account of the accident shocking. Of course being from the Netherlands I'm extremely biased, but from my perspective these kind of American "driver kills cyclist" accidents I keep reading are as insane as "accidentally" killing someone whilst "accidentally" pointing a loaded gun at their heads. Even with a car it's hard to kill a cyclist by accident, unless the accident results in a very unlucky fall.
- tripzilch 13y ago
  ... and to think we don't even wear helmets on our bikes. And it's not that Dutch skulls happen to be tougher.
Steltek 13y ago
Having cars around is super dangerous. It's rare for a cyclist or pedestrian to just trip themselves and fall over dead. It takes a car with a negligent or ioditic driver to run them over (and consequently, not get prosecuted because it's implied that the cyclist had it coming!). Take away the cars and instantaneously, we would eliminates hundreds of thousands of deaths. Factor in increased exercise and it's almost laughable that we're not doing this.
agilebyte 13y ago
Was going through stats the other day to see when is it more dangerous: 1) Under low light conditions 2) When trucks are around 3) When said trucks turn left and you are going straight (for people cycling/driving on the left) No surprises there.

sivers 13y ago

Wow. Thanks for the unexpected post & votes here, HN buddies. This community is an ongoing inspiration.

ChuckMcM 13y ago
The sentiment you express is very true. Time is limited, make every day count. As I got older that became more and more clear to me.
- sivers 13y ago
  A big reason I haven't been posting anything in months (years!) is I think what I have to say isn't very novel or interesting. "Time is limited, make every day count." Yeah yeah yeah. We know. Everyone knows. Took a sudden death and a lot of sobbing today to make me say fuggit and just write, without worrying about being novel or unique. I ordinarily don't care about upvotes, but something so unoriginal (but hopefully important) as this getting upvoted by my peers on HN is really encouraging.
  - buugs 13y ago
    You may not always say something novel or unique but I have enjoyed some of your posts immensely and if you aren't writing you may never write the next post that greatly affects someone. Thanks for your writing, and sorry for your loss.
  - javajosh 13y ago
    It's good that you are adding your voice to the chorus, even if someone else might be singing the same notes. There is no law that says that truth and insight, once spoken, should never be spoken again! :) Welcome back.
  - jw_ 13y ago
    I also find myself thinking that my writing is not original enough to bother sharing, or my music, or my programming side projects. If nothing else your post has got me thinking about the need to just get over "lack of originality" as an excuse for not doing something. Originality doesn't just show up, torn from the thigh of Zeus - we need to start putting stuff out there now to get where we want. For what it's worth, I think the personal tone of this piece makes it interesting. The theme might be "time is limited" but it would be selling it short to simply reduce it down to that.

3pt14159 13y ago

sivers your work is some of the truly best. I'm so sorry for your loss, I've never lost a close friend so I have no idea what you are going through, but obviously if there is anything we can do to help just put out the word.

sergiotapia 13y ago

Sorry for your loss. I used to ride my bike everywhere when I was in my late teens; these days I can't imagine doing that. All it takes is one distracted driver to cause terrible loss.

iamthepieman 13y ago

Sivers, may you be at peace. It took a death in my family to make me realize that I needed to "start writing again". That was several years ago and I see myself in some of the old ruts and in some that are newly worn. I wonder how many tragedies before I learn my lesson.

hudibras 13y ago

You try to do everything right (helmet, bike lane, daylight riding), and then a police car runs you over and kills you. Sometimes I don't know why I bother doing anything except spending time with my family. I tell myself that I've got to pay the bills, be an adult, etc., but is it really worth it when everything can be over in an instant? Now I'm depressing myself. Maybe reading another couple HN articles will cheer me up...

visakanv 13y ago
Spend time with your family, please do. That matters. But don't let the possibility of loss prevent you from learning, from growing, from experiencing joy. Protect and insure yourself, yes. But don't turn away from living. Create and build things you can be proud of (especially family). internet hug
xivzgrev 13y ago
It's a fair question, and I think we all need to strike that balance. Spend 100% of time with family, and you cease to be your own person, your identity linked with theirs. Spend no time with your family, and you're filled with regret when it's too late. Right now my parents live across the country, and given realities of day to day life (economics, vacation days, etc) it's tough to make it work for in person. But we talk every few days to bridge divide. They still feel far away though. So all I can say is find a way to see your family a little more than you do now. Keep repeating until you find your balance.
danieldk 13y ago
I tell myself that I've got to pay the bills, be an adult, etc., but is it really worth it when everything can be over in an instant? One of the reasons we work is to obtain the means to do nice things with family. E.g. travelling to some beautiful mountain range and enjoying it together. Family life becomes better with variety and new experiences. We should draw the line at somewhere. If we are working ten hour days six days a week, we have lost balance. Unfortunately, the income distribution seems to become so bad that a considerable amount of the population can do nothing else than to work.

donretag 13y ago

The other thread regarding Milt's death: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6875151 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6875151

sivers 13y ago
Thanks for posting that in these comments. I hadn't seen that thread.

visakanv 13y ago

I've always been bothered by what I call this 'life-perspective problem", and of course, I'm always bothered more when something horrible like this happens. (The preceding statement has its own problem buried in it- because something horrible is always happening, at every second.) I've spoken about it in other forms- "procrastination should be solved by lighting fires, not filling buckets" and so on. There is powerful emotional energy to be harnessed, but a lot of us (maybe just me, but clearly others too) have no idea how to manipulate it effectively, so we typically go without it. When we do get a flash of inspiration, the energy needs to go into a system where it generates something lasting- otherwise we just get the one-off blogpost or product that doesn't go anywhere. We get tired and everyday life dehumanizes us again. It's the same central idea: Can we modify our circumstances and environment such that they remind us of the things that matter, in a way that disrupts us from settling into sub-optimal comfort zones? I used to think that maybe this was a self-indulgent problem that I had, simply romanticizing the moping around, but clearly it afflicts even highly productive and accomplished persons like Mr. Sivers. Clearly this is a broader human problem- our inability to contextualize things, to see the bigger broader picture except when it's too late, or when we're unexpectedly inspired. Is meditation the solution? I think meditation is a practice that encourages the broadening of perspective, but I'm sure there are other ways to reach the same destination- I'm sure we could design for it into our media, into our daily lives. There is some very meaningful work to be done in this "perspective/reminder" space, but I don't know what exactly, and I don't know how to do it. But I'd like to get involved in it somehow, someday, before it's too late. I hope this is helpful to someone. Thanks for sharing, and thanks for reading.

andrewb 13y ago
Cheers. I found it helpful. I too would like to have an answer but having the question is the most important thing. http://kiriakakis.net/comics/mused/a-day-at-the-park http://kiriakakis.net/comics/mused/a-day-at-the-park
nataraja 13y ago
Meditation helps. I also recommend mindful use of psychedelics.
13y ago

menosee 13y ago

Derek -- This is a nice piece in a difficult time. I am childhood friends with one of Milt's sons and know his family appreciates all the love being sent their way. Thank you for sharing with everyone.

sidcool 13y ago

Sorry for your loss, Derek.

javindo 13y ago

Wow, just like that. This was amazingly sombre, sorry for your loss and thank you for your inspirational words.

camkego 13y ago

Setting up dual booting two OSes is not a good use of my time?

jarnix 13y ago

They show this on TV in your country ? they don't have anything else to talk about ?