4 ms·

Does anyone know what the sign "Fine $271; Total Fine (2011-2013) $1 Billion" refers to? https://twitter.com/maxbatt/status/410097083081695233/photo/1/large htt

by chaz 13y ago

Does anyone know what the sign "Fine $271; Total Fine (2011-2013) $1 Billion" refers to? https://twitter.com/maxbatt/status/410097083081695233/photo/1/large https://twitter.com/maxbatt/status/410097083081695233/photo/...

jamiequint 13y ago
I assume the number of shuttle bus stops * fine for stopping in a bus zone ($271) ~= $1 Bn
- chaz 13y ago
  Their math seems suspect. $1B / $271 = 3.7 million stops. Assuming 39 bus stops in the Bay Area [1], a 7d/wk schedule (i.e., no separate holiday/weekend schedule), and that every bus stop gets an equal number of stops, that's 86 stops per day per bus stop. Or once every 17 minutes, around the clock. I'd believe that frequency for peak hours at the busiest/largest stops, but not as the all-day average across every stop. [1] http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10000872396390443982904578044520776395486 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000087239639044398290... Edit: From their website & flyer: http://www.heart-of-the-city.org/ http://www.heart-of-the-city.org/ Tech Industry private shuttles use over 200 SF MUNI stops approximately 7,100 times in total each day (M-F) without permission or contributing funds to support this public infrastructure. No vehicles other than MUNI are allowed to use these stops. If the tech industry was fined for each illegal use for the past 2 years, they would owe an estimated $1 billion to the city. The numbers still sound high to me, but ... shrug
  - tedivm 13y ago
    >Google declined to comment on the map, but said it has over 100 buses that shuttle 4,500-plus people per day from more than 30 stops across seven Bay Area counties. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10000872396390443982904578044520776395486 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000087239639044398290... So Google alone could make up that number. Toss in the other tech companies that are doing this as well and I can see how there are far more than 86 stops a day.
    - magicalist 13y ago
      It makes "more than 30 stops", but it wouldn't be physically possible to make that number of stops with 100 buses (even ignoring that they then have to make the hour+ trip down to Mountain View after that). The math doesn't make sense.
    - minwcnt5 13y ago
      I think you missed the part of the post you're replying to where he said his calculations amount to 86 stops per day per stop. That's at least 2580 stops per day total. 2580 stops for 4500 employees? They're clearly off by more than an order of magnitude.
tedivm 13y ago
I'm not sure about the $1billion, but the $271 fine is what we as regular citizens would get if we tried to pick people up from the bus stop. The complaint is that the two tiered system- one where normal citizens have to follow the rules, while corporations can do whatever they please- and the fine is simply one example of that.
- WalterBright 13y ago
  > The bus operators — private companies like Google, Facebook, Apple and Genentech — would pay for permits to use the Muni stops Looks like that issue is being taken care of.
  - tedivm 13y ago
    Yeah, it's nice to know that if I break the rules I can get the city to retroactively change them for me, assuming I have enough money.
    - chaz 13y ago
      Curious: if you disagree with a permitting process for the private buses, what would you prefer the outcome to be?
      - ryguytilidie 13y ago
        That seems like a mighty straw man. He never said he disagreed with the permit process. He simply disagrees with the idea that these companies have been able to park illegally with no consequence for years and instead of just writing them tickets, as the city would do for a normal person, they decide to give them permits to prevent them from having to break the law hundreds of times a day.
    - UrlichtZwei 13y ago
      Wait, wait, isn't that how politics in general work?
    - 13y ago

by chaz 13y ago

jamiequint 13y ago

I assume the number of shuttle bus stops * fine for stopping in a bus zone ($271) ~= $1 Bn

chaz 13y ago
Their math seems suspect. $1B / $271 = 3.7 million stops. Assuming 39 bus stops in the Bay Area [1], a 7d/wk schedule (i.e., no separate holiday/weekend schedule), and that every bus stop gets an equal number of stops, that's 86 stops per day per bus stop. Or once every 17 minutes, around the clock. I'd believe that frequency for peak hours at the busiest/largest stops, but not as the all-day average across every stop. [1] http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10000872396390443982904578044520776395486 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000087239639044398290... Edit: From their website & flyer: http://www.heart-of-the-city.org/ http://www.heart-of-the-city.org/ Tech Industry private shuttles use over 200 SF MUNI stops approximately 7,100 times in total each day (M-F) without permission or contributing funds to support this public infrastructure. No vehicles other than MUNI are allowed to use these stops. If the tech industry was fined for each illegal use for the past 2 years, they would owe an estimated $1 billion to the city. The numbers still sound high to me, but ... shrug
- tedivm 13y ago
  >Google declined to comment on the map, but said it has over 100 buses that shuttle 4,500-plus people per day from more than 30 stops across seven Bay Area counties. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10000872396390443982904578044520776395486 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000087239639044398290... So Google alone could make up that number. Toss in the other tech companies that are doing this as well and I can see how there are far more than 86 stops a day.
  - magicalist 13y ago
    It makes "more than 30 stops", but it wouldn't be physically possible to make that number of stops with 100 buses (even ignoring that they then have to make the hour+ trip down to Mountain View after that). The math doesn't make sense.
  - minwcnt5 13y ago
    I think you missed the part of the post you're replying to where he said his calculations amount to 86 stops per day per stop. That's at least 2580 stops per day total. 2580 stops for 4500 employees? They're clearly off by more than an order of magnitude.

tedivm 13y ago

I'm not sure about the $1billion, but the $271 fine is what we as regular citizens would get if we tried to pick people up from the bus stop. The complaint is that the two tiered system- one where normal citizens have to follow the rules, while corporations can do whatever they please- and the fine is simply one example of that.

WalterBright 13y ago
> The bus operators — private companies like Google, Facebook, Apple and Genentech — would pay for permits to use the Muni stops Looks like that issue is being taken care of.
- tedivm 13y ago
  Yeah, it's nice to know that if I break the rules I can get the city to retroactively change them for me, assuming I have enough money.
  - chaz 13y ago
    Curious: if you disagree with a permitting process for the private buses, what would you prefer the outcome to be?
    - ryguytilidie 13y ago
      That seems like a mighty straw man. He never said he disagreed with the permit process. He simply disagrees with the idea that these companies have been able to park illegally with no consequence for years and instead of just writing them tickets, as the city would do for a normal person, they decide to give them permits to prevent them from having to break the law hundreds of times a day.
  - UrlichtZwei 13y ago
    Wait, wait, isn't that how politics in general work?
  - 13y ago