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If there is one constant, it's that cities will change. You change the demographics, ethnicity, nationality, or language distribution, you get change. Where is

If there is one constant, it's that cities will change. You change the demographics, ethnicity, nationality, or language distribution, you get change. Where is it written that people have a right to live in an unchanging world? The same things these people are complaining about are the same thing old Southern white racists complain about -- this becoming a minority majority country. These people wanted America to be a Ollie and Harriet whitebread nuclear family country, and diversity increased and changed the culture. "Poor culture" is not intrinsically more valuable than "rich tech culture", it's just different, and there's no a priori justification that one groups has a set of preferences and rights that supercedes the others. The anti - gentrification people are cultural conservatives and don't realize it.

sp332 13y ago
Are you really so "progressive" that you think people should roll over and die as soon as someone richer moves into town? There has been a recent rash of evictions by landlords hoping to cash in on the influx of Googlers. That means people are literally homeless heading in to the winter because they can't compete for housing.
- cromwellian 13y ago
  It is not the fault of the people seeking the housing. When gas prices went up a number of years ago due to a surge in demand from China,should we "roll over and die as soon as Chinese start driving more cars?" Other people's demand for products drive up prices if there is a supply constraint, in what moral code can you blame them for desiring what you have? In the case of SF, there are people who want to live there. That demand drives up the probability that landlords will want to raise rent, and if they can't because of rent control, arrange an eviction. What should tech workers do? Realize that the people currently living in SF have some kind of nativist right to live there and new immigrants to the city are persona non grata? I'm not even sure we should blame landlords for wanting to raise rents. I'm sure if you owned a house in the city, and someone was willing to offer you 10x the current rent controlled price you're collecting, you'd be seriously questioning how 'progressive' you feel towards your tenants. San Francisco has demand that outstrips supply. Either increase supply, or recognize that the city is going to continue to get more expensive to live in. San Francisco cannot escape the fate of London and other cities in this respect.
  - sp332 13y ago
    Googlers don't even realize that things are changing so drastically. Instead of a "nativist right" how about some respect for the people who are there? Right now they don't even see each other.
    - cromwellian 13y ago
      I live in the suburbs and I don't even see my neighbors during the week. Tech workers work long hours, especially if you have kids, here's how it tends to work: Drop off kids at 8am. Head off to work. Arrive at work by 9. Work until 6 or 7pm. Pick up kids from after school. Eat dinner. Do homework. Play with kids. Put kids to sleep. Catch up on work emails or emergencies. End up going to bed late. Work life balance in tech is in someways worse than non-tech, because tech workers take their work with them everywhere. There's not going to be a lot of time for socializing at block parties.
Crito 13y ago
I am not going to support much of what this guy said (and apparently the guy was a plant and the whole incident was a false flags operation?) but I have to say the "How long have you lived in this city?" line really boils my blood. Maybe it is just because I am biased, having been born in a rural area rather than in a city, but I don't think growing up in a city gives you any sort of special rights. Nobody is a higher class of citizen just because they have lived in a city longer than others. Their apparent false flags operation has succeeded in making both sides look bad.
- sp332 13y ago
  Even if the yelling was fake, the problem and the protest is real.
  - Crito 13y ago
    Part of the problem may be real enough, I don't live in that city or work for that company, so I am not going to say one way or the other. I do have an issue with the "I've lived here longer than you" bullshit. If these protesters have a legitimate point (and if these buses really are the menace that people are saying, then I suspect that they do), they can surely make it without resorting to such elitist self-aggrandizing crap.

sp332 13y ago

Are you really so "progressive" that you think people should roll over and die as soon as someone richer moves into town? There has been a recent rash of evictions by landlords hoping to cash in on the influx of Googlers. That means people are literally homeless heading in to the winter because they can't compete for housing.

cromwellian 13y ago
It is not the fault of the people seeking the housing. When gas prices went up a number of years ago due to a surge in demand from China,should we "roll over and die as soon as Chinese start driving more cars?" Other people's demand for products drive up prices if there is a supply constraint, in what moral code can you blame them for desiring what you have? In the case of SF, there are people who want to live there. That demand drives up the probability that landlords will want to raise rent, and if they can't because of rent control, arrange an eviction. What should tech workers do? Realize that the people currently living in SF have some kind of nativist right to live there and new immigrants to the city are persona non grata? I'm not even sure we should blame landlords for wanting to raise rents. I'm sure if you owned a house in the city, and someone was willing to offer you 10x the current rent controlled price you're collecting, you'd be seriously questioning how 'progressive' you feel towards your tenants. San Francisco has demand that outstrips supply. Either increase supply, or recognize that the city is going to continue to get more expensive to live in. San Francisco cannot escape the fate of London and other cities in this respect.
- sp332 13y ago
  Googlers don't even realize that things are changing so drastically. Instead of a "nativist right" how about some respect for the people who are there? Right now they don't even see each other.
  - cromwellian 13y ago
    I live in the suburbs and I don't even see my neighbors during the week. Tech workers work long hours, especially if you have kids, here's how it tends to work: Drop off kids at 8am. Head off to work. Arrive at work by 9. Work until 6 or 7pm. Pick up kids from after school. Eat dinner. Do homework. Play with kids. Put kids to sleep. Catch up on work emails or emergencies. End up going to bed late. Work life balance in tech is in someways worse than non-tech, because tech workers take their work with them everywhere. There's not going to be a lot of time for socializing at block parties.

Crito 13y ago

I am not going to support much of what this guy said (and apparently the guy was a plant and the whole incident was a false flags operation?) but I have to say the "How long have you lived in this city?" line really boils my blood. Maybe it is just because I am biased, having been born in a rural area rather than in a city, but I don't think growing up in a city gives you any sort of special rights. Nobody is a higher class of citizen just because they have lived in a city longer than others. Their apparent false flags operation has succeeded in making both sides look bad.

sp332 13y ago
Even if the yelling was fake, the problem and the protest is real.
- Crito 13y ago
  Part of the problem may be real enough, I don't live in that city or work for that company, so I am not going to say one way or the other. I do have an issue with the "I've lived here longer than you" bullshit. If these protesters have a legitimate point (and if these buses really are the menace that people are saying, then I suspect that they do), they can surely make it without resorting to such elitist self-aggrandizing crap.