4 ms·

kinda depressing that all the money that companies pay for these buses couldn't simply be used to offer better service in the public system. Maybe BART could o

by rtpg 13y ago

kinda depressing that all the money that companies pay for these buses couldn't simply be used to offer better service in the public system. Maybe BART could offer bus rental services for companies wanting these lines? At the very least it would help to pay for infrastructure for the rest of us. Maybe I'm biased by the fact that I've lived in cities with usable public transportation

nostrademons 13y ago
There may be a bureaucracy problem rather than a funding problem. When Google pays a shuttle company directly, everybody is incentivized to make everything move smoothly: Google benefits from having its employees get to work on time, the employees benefit from having free wifi and not having to drive in rush-hour traffic, and the private companies that provide the buses get Google's money and have a strong incentive to keep their business. In the public system, the people who run the program are often very different from the people who use the program, and so if it's a mess, they're like "Eh, I get to keep my government job." It's interesting that the cities with decent public transportation - Boston, NYC, DC - all have strong cultures of public transportation and large percentages of people that don't have a car. It's very likely that the transportation commissioner in NYC takes the subway to work; it's somewhat less likely that whoever runs the buses in SF takes them to work.
calbear81 13y ago
The problem is that BART doesn't go down to Mountain View. You have to do a transfer at Milbrae to Caltrain and your fares end up adding up to $20+ for a round trip which is more than the cost of gas for the same trip. When I lived in the Inner Sunset, trying to take public transportation to my job in Mountain View (not at the G) meant hopping on an N-Judah for 30 minutes to get to the Caltrain station then sitting on a Caltrain for 45 minutes to 69 minutes (depending on train) which adds to 1 1/2 hours each way not to mention having to deal with the Muni and having a Caltrain person wake you up to "see your ticket".
- nostrademons 13y ago
  Caltrain is actually faster than the G-Bus with recent Bay Area traffic - it's not unusual to sit on 101 for 2 hours for the SF -> Google commute. A number of Googlers have recently switched from shuttle to Caltrain, eating the cost out of pocket, which may be more sustainable in the long run but in the short run is putting a strain on Caltrain capacity.
  - rtpg 13y ago
    2 hours? Is living in SF really that great? Or is there just nothing interesting close to Google?
    - nostrademons 13y ago
      I don't personally think it's worth it - I live 2 miles away from the Googleplex, and bike to work weather/schedule-permitting. But a number of my coworkers just really want to live in the city. I think it's a generational thing - the majority of people my generation seem to prefer city living.
- pmiller2 13y ago
  Public transportation starts looking a lot better if you have to pay for parking. It would take me roughly $12 in gas for the round trip in my car, so if I have to pay $10 for parking for the day (which would be cheap by SF standards, though I don't know how it would rate in Mountain View), I come out ahead monetarily taking Caltrain. It still might not be worth it in light of other inconveniences, though.
ryanobjc 13y ago
Are you sure about that? I wonder how much the shuttle system costs Google. It's hard to say for certain, but its probably in the millions of dollars a year. Now, let's contrast that to the BART extension to SFO, which was completed in 2002 and cost $1.5 billion for 8.7 miles of new track. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Bay_Area_Rapid_Transit#San_Francisco_International_Airport_extension http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Bay_Area_Rapid_T...) Extending BART service to San Jose (which is hardly a politically trivial affair) would cost a few bucks to say the least. There is also the east-side extension which would compete with a west-side extension: http://www.bart.gov/about/projects/wsx http://www.bart.gov/about/projects/wsx Unfortunately companies can't really just give money to the government to do their pet projects. It's been tried before and it kind of ends up poorly.
mathattack 13y ago
Could the anger be that companies aren't paying as much taxes as they used to, and hence there's not enough money for BART to be fixed? I'm not saying this is or isn't the case, just trying to get inside the mind of the protesters.
hnriot 13y ago
isn't the answer obvious. Google can call a bus company and have a solution in place in a day, or contribute billions to a goverment project that will take 15 years to finish (just look at BART, SJ light rail etc etc)
theorique 13y ago
kinda depressing that all the money that companies pay for these buses couldn't simply be used to offer better service in the public system. Very different pools of money.
tibbon 13y ago
I don't live in SF, and I really don't fully understand the issues at hand here. But from what I've seen, writing checks to public transit systems (like the MBTA here in Boston) is a sure way to make sure that nothing ever happens. Case in point, the "Green Line Extension" has been talked about for dozens of years now, and funded many times. They keep losing/wasting the money. I don't think Google wants to wait 10-30 years for the Bart system to catch up with their needs (if ever at all). But I also don't understand why a company providing private shuttles is such a polarizing idea. No one gets bent about hotel shuttles or ones at convention centers, and putting more people in a shuttle is far better than each of them individually driving.

by rtpg 13y ago

nostrademons 13y ago

There may be a bureaucracy problem rather than a funding problem. When Google pays a shuttle company directly, everybody is incentivized to make everything move smoothly: Google benefits from having its employees get to work on time, the employees benefit from having free wifi and not having to drive in rush-hour traffic, and the private companies that provide the buses get Google's money and have a strong incentive to keep their business. In the public system, the people who run the program are often very different from the people who use the program, and so if it's a mess, they're like "Eh, I get to keep my government job." It's interesting that the cities with decent public transportation - Boston, NYC, DC - all have strong cultures of public transportation and large percentages of people that don't have a car. It's very likely that the transportation commissioner in NYC takes the subway to work; it's somewhat less likely that whoever runs the buses in SF takes them to work.

calbear81 13y ago

The problem is that BART doesn't go down to Mountain View. You have to do a transfer at Milbrae to Caltrain and your fares end up adding up to $20+ for a round trip which is more than the cost of gas for the same trip. When I lived in the Inner Sunset, trying to take public transportation to my job in Mountain View (not at the G) meant hopping on an N-Judah for 30 minutes to get to the Caltrain station then sitting on a Caltrain for 45 minutes to 69 minutes (depending on train) which adds to 1 1/2 hours each way not to mention having to deal with the Muni and having a Caltrain person wake you up to "see your ticket".

nostrademons 13y ago
Caltrain is actually faster than the G-Bus with recent Bay Area traffic - it's not unusual to sit on 101 for 2 hours for the SF -> Google commute. A number of Googlers have recently switched from shuttle to Caltrain, eating the cost out of pocket, which may be more sustainable in the long run but in the short run is putting a strain on Caltrain capacity.
- rtpg 13y ago
  2 hours? Is living in SF really that great? Or is there just nothing interesting close to Google?
  - nostrademons 13y ago
    I don't personally think it's worth it - I live 2 miles away from the Googleplex, and bike to work weather/schedule-permitting. But a number of my coworkers just really want to live in the city. I think it's a generational thing - the majority of people my generation seem to prefer city living.
pmiller2 13y ago
Public transportation starts looking a lot better if you have to pay for parking. It would take me roughly $12 in gas for the round trip in my car, so if I have to pay $10 for parking for the day (which would be cheap by SF standards, though I don't know how it would rate in Mountain View), I come out ahead monetarily taking Caltrain. It still might not be worth it in light of other inconveniences, though.

ryanobjc 13y ago

Are you sure about that? I wonder how much the shuttle system costs Google. It's hard to say for certain, but its probably in the millions of dollars a year. Now, let's contrast that to the BART extension to SFO, which was completed in 2002 and cost $1.5 billion for 8.7 miles of new track. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Bay_Area_Rapid_Transit#San_Francisco_International_Airport_extension http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Bay_Area_Rapid_T...) Extending BART service to San Jose (which is hardly a politically trivial affair) would cost a few bucks to say the least. There is also the east-side extension which would compete with a west-side extension: http://www.bart.gov/about/projects/wsx http://www.bart.gov/about/projects/wsx Unfortunately companies can't really just give money to the government to do their pet projects. It's been tried before and it kind of ends up poorly.

mathattack 13y ago

Could the anger be that companies aren't paying as much taxes as they used to, and hence there's not enough money for BART to be fixed? I'm not saying this is or isn't the case, just trying to get inside the mind of the protesters.

hnriot 13y ago

isn't the answer obvious. Google can call a bus company and have a solution in place in a day, or contribute billions to a goverment project that will take 15 years to finish (just look at BART, SJ light rail etc etc)

theorique 13y ago

kinda depressing that all the money that companies pay for these buses couldn't simply be used to offer better service in the public system. Very different pools of money.

tibbon 13y ago

I don't live in SF, and I really don't fully understand the issues at hand here. But from what I've seen, writing checks to public transit systems (like the MBTA here in Boston) is a sure way to make sure that nothing ever happens. Case in point, the "Green Line Extension" has been talked about for dozens of years now, and funded many times. They keep losing/wasting the money. I don't think Google wants to wait 10-30 years for the Bart system to catch up with their needs (if ever at all). But I also don't understand why a company providing private shuttles is such a polarizing idea. No one gets bent about hotel shuttles or ones at convention centers, and putting more people in a shuttle is far better than each of them individually driving.