6 ms·

You're attempting to say that because a subset of cyclists don't obey traffic rules therefore it's okay to not treat cyclists who are killed in traffic accident

by ASpring 13y ago

You're attempting to say that because a subset of cyclists don't obey traffic rules therefore it's okay to not treat cyclists who are killed in traffic accidents as human beings. Stunning work.

aroch 13y ago
That isn't at all what I'm "attempting" to say. If the GP wants to complain about the law not being "enforced" to punish the cop perhaps they should complain about the lack of enforcement on cyclists too
- mikeash 13y ago
  Why? Where is the rule that says you must complain about all bad things at once?
- hack_edu 13y ago
  Let me know when a cyclist last killed a cop and lets talk about who got charged what. Also, you still are equating Failure to Stop's (which sure, could maybe someday cause some sort of fatal whatever someday whenever)... with the actual, real, actual loss of life. Insultingly vile.
  - aroch 13y ago
    Hey look, a recent example of a bicyclist not only injuring but killing a pedestrian because they chose not to obey the law. http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2013/08/15/107079/Chris-Bucchere-Sutchi-Hui-bicyclist-pedestrian http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2013/08/15/107079/Chris-Bucche... I hate the pedantic bullshit of elitist cyclists like yourself
    - hack_edu 13y ago
      Just to close this out, out of respect for the lives of Milton, the cop, Josh all others cited above... I'm not really a cyclist. I like it, its fun, and I ride safe on the handful of rides I have each year. But I might be a pedantic little shit. ;)
      - crystaln 13y ago
        You're not a pedantic little shit. You're arguing with a jerk. Equating cyclists running stop signs to drivers killing cyclists in bike lanes is ridiculous, especially given that the cyclist in the example pled guilty to homicide and drivers are - literally - never prosecuted for killing cyclists. Don't be so quick to demean yourself in the face of asinine attacks.
    - darkarmani 13y ago
      > pleading guilty to felony vehicular manslaughter and avoiding a jury trial that could have sent him to prison if he were convicted. So we'll see this cop sentenced to vehicular manslaughter? Let's see if that happens. I'd love to be wrong.
- jessaustin 13y ago
  "Perhaps" is an infamous weasel-word. Why not say that you value all cyclists' lives less because some cyclists have flaunted traffic laws in a way that annoys you? If that isn't your point, what is?
- kamjam 13y ago
  There's a lack of enforcement of a lot of motoring laws too. I've sped plenty of times without being caught, I haven't always used the blinkers and sometimes I've even parked illegally. I've jumped the occasional red light. What you are saying about cyclists applies equally to motorists, so I really don't know what point you are trying to make. The _vast majority_ of both groups are law abiding people.
sukuriant 13y ago
I think he was raging at the cyclists that don't obey the rules of the road, not cyclists in general. I know I can separate the two out in my mind. For example: when a bike is curb-hopping and ignoring stoplights, I become frustrated at their wanton disregard for their own safety. When I see a bike riding on the side of the road in their lane, focused and stopping at lights, I don't complain and comfortably wait until there's space for me to pass him with a wide berth and then do so. It's the same with pedestrians. I don't get upset if they're walking on the road. I get angry because I'm scared for their safety when they think it's okay to j-walk across 6 lanes of traffic in rush hour at night while wearing black because "I'm a pedestrian and if you hit me, I'll sue." No. If I hit you, you'll probably die because I'm a ton and a half of metal and you're 150 pounds of water and carbon. Cars are big and they are very dangerous. I may love my car and I love driving it. I love biking and I love walking as well and in some places in the world, we've designed it so that all of these activities can be done in close proximity with relatively high safety and everyone needs to do their part to keep it a safe environment. When cars don't respect bikers, people get hurt. When bikes don't respect cars and predictability (by staying in their lane, going WITH traffic, stopping at traffic lights, or staying on the sidewalk, etc), people get hurt. When pedestrians think they're God and don't pay attention to cars OR bikes, people get hurt. I have no idea what happened in this single instance that the article itself is talking about; but frustration with a certain kind of biker does not automatically result in believing "it's okay to not treat cyclists who are killed in traffic accidents as human beings".
- ASpring 13y ago
  Thank you for the well thought out reply and I'll admit and apologize that the previous reply was snarky with a bit of anger. However, it suffices to say that using a thread lamenting the death of a cyclist for venting about improper cyclist behavior isn't a considerate thing to do. Let alone quoting a line that correctly suggests that motorists who kill cyclists are not treated similarly to motorists who are at fault in other fatal accidents. Accidents between vehicles and cyclists are not often the cyclist's fault (in <10% of accidents is the cyclist at fault)[1]. Bicycling organizations "do not know of a single case of a cyclist fatality in which the driver was prosecuted, except for D.U.I. or hit-and-run,”[2]. [1] http://www.sharetheroad.ca/what-are-the-dangers-in-terms-of-cycling-safety--p128277 http://www.sharetheroad.ca/what-are-the-dangers-in-terms-of-... [2]http://www.sharetheroad.ca/what-are-the-dangers-in-terms-of-cycling-safety--p128277 http://www.sharetheroad.ca/what-are-the-dangers-in-terms-of-...

by ASpring 13y ago

You're attempting to say that because a subset of cyclists don't obey traffic rules therefore it's okay to not treat cyclists who are killed in traffic accidents as human beings. Stunning work.

aroch 13y ago

That isn't at all what I'm "attempting" to say. If the GP wants to complain about the law not being "enforced" to punish the cop perhaps they should complain about the lack of enforcement on cyclists too

mikeash 13y ago
Why? Where is the rule that says you must complain about all bad things at once?
hack_edu 13y ago
Let me know when a cyclist last killed a cop and lets talk about who got charged what. Also, you still are equating Failure to Stop's (which sure, could maybe someday cause some sort of fatal whatever someday whenever)... with the actual, real, actual loss of life. Insultingly vile.
- aroch 13y ago
  Hey look, a recent example of a bicyclist not only injuring but killing a pedestrian because they chose not to obey the law. http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2013/08/15/107079/Chris-Bucchere-Sutchi-Hui-bicyclist-pedestrian http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2013/08/15/107079/Chris-Bucche... I hate the pedantic bullshit of elitist cyclists like yourself
  - hack_edu 13y ago
    Just to close this out, out of respect for the lives of Milton, the cop, Josh all others cited above... I'm not really a cyclist. I like it, its fun, and I ride safe on the handful of rides I have each year. But I might be a pedantic little shit. ;)
    - crystaln 13y ago
      You're not a pedantic little shit. You're arguing with a jerk. Equating cyclists running stop signs to drivers killing cyclists in bike lanes is ridiculous, especially given that the cyclist in the example pled guilty to homicide and drivers are - literally - never prosecuted for killing cyclists. Don't be so quick to demean yourself in the face of asinine attacks.
  - darkarmani 13y ago
    > pleading guilty to felony vehicular manslaughter and avoiding a jury trial that could have sent him to prison if he were convicted. So we'll see this cop sentenced to vehicular manslaughter? Let's see if that happens. I'd love to be wrong.
jessaustin 13y ago
"Perhaps" is an infamous weasel-word. Why not say that you value all cyclists' lives less because some cyclists have flaunted traffic laws in a way that annoys you? If that isn't your point, what is?
kamjam 13y ago
There's a lack of enforcement of a lot of motoring laws too. I've sped plenty of times without being caught, I haven't always used the blinkers and sometimes I've even parked illegally. I've jumped the occasional red light. What you are saying about cyclists applies equally to motorists, so I really don't know what point you are trying to make. The _vast majority_ of both groups are law abiding people.

sukuriant 13y ago

I think he was raging at the cyclists that don't obey the rules of the road, not cyclists in general. I know I can separate the two out in my mind. For example: when a bike is curb-hopping and ignoring stoplights, I become frustrated at their wanton disregard for their own safety. When I see a bike riding on the side of the road in their lane, focused and stopping at lights, I don't complain and comfortably wait until there's space for me to pass him with a wide berth and then do so. It's the same with pedestrians. I don't get upset if they're walking on the road. I get angry because I'm scared for their safety when they think it's okay to j-walk across 6 lanes of traffic in rush hour at night while wearing black because "I'm a pedestrian and if you hit me, I'll sue." No. If I hit you, you'll probably die because I'm a ton and a half of metal and you're 150 pounds of water and carbon. Cars are big and they are very dangerous. I may love my car and I love driving it. I love biking and I love walking as well and in some places in the world, we've designed it so that all of these activities can be done in close proximity with relatively high safety and everyone needs to do their part to keep it a safe environment. When cars don't respect bikers, people get hurt. When bikes don't respect cars and predictability (by staying in their lane, going WITH traffic, stopping at traffic lights, or staying on the sidewalk, etc), people get hurt. When pedestrians think they're God and don't pay attention to cars OR bikes, people get hurt. I have no idea what happened in this single instance that the article itself is talking about; but frustration with a certain kind of biker does not automatically result in believing "it's okay to not treat cyclists who are killed in traffic accidents as human beings".

ASpring 13y ago
Thank you for the well thought out reply and I'll admit and apologize that the previous reply was snarky with a bit of anger. However, it suffices to say that using a thread lamenting the death of a cyclist for venting about improper cyclist behavior isn't a considerate thing to do. Let alone quoting a line that correctly suggests that motorists who kill cyclists are not treated similarly to motorists who are at fault in other fatal accidents. Accidents between vehicles and cyclists are not often the cyclist's fault (in <10% of accidents is the cyclist at fault)[1]. Bicycling organizations "do not know of a single case of a cyclist fatality in which the driver was prosecuted, except for D.U.I. or hit-and-run,”[2]. [1] http://www.sharetheroad.ca/what-are-the-dangers-in-terms-of-cycling-safety--p128277 http://www.sharetheroad.ca/what-are-the-dangers-in-terms-of-... [2]http://www.sharetheroad.ca/what-are-the-dangers-in-terms-of-cycling-safety--p128277 http://www.sharetheroad.ca/what-are-the-dangers-in-terms-of-...