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Any Mac user who uses "hobby" apps knows how to edit their System Preferences. For people like my parents, who never use any third-party apps and routinely mov

Any Mac user who uses "hobby" apps knows how to edit their System Preferences. For people like my parents, who never use any third-party apps and routinely move the entire Safari app to their desktop (I think they think it's a shortcut or something lol), Gatekeeper is useful. I'm just glad they're off PCs now; the number of tech-support calls I get from them has dropped dramatically.

JohnTHaller 13y ago
I wonder what will happen to apps like Firefox when Apple switches Mac OS to App Store only by default and implement some of the restrictions in iOS in the Mac app store. Restrictions like no Javascript allowed. Sure, apps like Chrome can go the same route as they do on iOS and build a custom Chrome skin atop the slower Mobile Safari engine available to 3rd party apps and always be a slower 2nd place browser. But Firefox? If it's just another slower webkit skin, it's not Firefox. Which is why there's no Firefox on iOS.
- rplacd 13y ago
  Assuming none of the rest of the infrastructure'll change - I'd consider working with possibilities as future "when"s impractical enough; a user'll go download Firefox, the standard Gatekeeper denial message'll pop up: "Firefox" can't be opened because it was not downloaded from the Mac App Store. Your security preferences allow installation of only apps from the Mac App Store. Safari downloaded this file today at... And the user'll either trip over the message and give up in frustration - there will be a class of user who'll visually pattern-match, rather than engage with a meaningful back-and-forth with their computer - or pop into the System Preferences, find Security waiting for them, and off they go. Fairly banal, but by far and large that's because the assumption that switching the default to the MAS-only option would be a novel attempt at total exclusion shouldn't be true, give or take the major assumption outlined above: not so when the current default's in fact "Mac App Store and identified developers" - narrowing the locus of trusted sources, then, is a change that should happen independently of how easy it'll be to get an unsigned app running.
  - JohnTHaller 13y ago
    The default used to be the bottom option which allows all apps. Then Apple switched it to App Store and Publishers that paid Apple $99 with the introduction of Gatekeeper. They'll switch it to App Store only by default soon enough. I'd wager that when Apple switches it to Mac App Store only by default, lots of open source developers will simply give up on Macs. I was planning on developing for Mac myself. Even bought a second hand Macbook to fire things up. But the way Apple works, I just don't trust that it'll be viable in a couple years. Given Apple's arbitrary application of rules in the iOS ecosystem, I have a dim view of the Mac's future in terms of openness. I decided instead to continue to focus on Windows and expand into *nix and Android.
    - rplacd 13y ago
      I doubt open-source developers were paying to have their executables codesigned in the first place - I'd assumed in the argument above, at the very least, that the Gatekeeper denial isn't the silent suppression the iOS kernel uses; and on that basis little may as well change for them. Projecting that Apple'll change both the default position of a radio button and their marginalia and messaging around Gatekeeper is different (as a somewhat more substantial change) from your premise, though.
      - JohnTHaller 13y ago
        A 3rd party to VLC tried getting VLC in the Mac App Store and then later it was pulled for violating the GPL. VLC had to relicense their whole code base to get in the App Store fully legally. Most open source projects will be unable to do that due to the sheer number of contributors and resistance to hobbling the copyleft license on their code. Most of us that had been watching Apple had projected that Apple would launch a Mac App store and make it the main place to get Mac software while still keeping clauses in their App Store license that are GPL hostile. That came to pass. As for Gatekeeper, expect that Apple will switch the setting in the next couple years. After all, Mac went from allowing installs of any software by default to restricting unsigned apps, essentially going from the lowest Gatekeeper setting to the middle, with little fanfair and minimal pushback from their userbase. They'll have an easy time taking it the next step as well. It's only really holdouts like Adobe that aren't in the app store that matter at this point. And Apple will likely force them into the App Store to get their 30% cut in the next couple years with the Gatekeeper change. All of this fits with Apple's core values of making things easy, exercising complete control, and forcing an excessive revenue share from all publishers. It already works that way for iPhone/iPad/iPod apps, music, videos and books. The only holdout is Mac apps and that will happen soon enough. The only folks that usually argue that it won't are the so-called Mac power-users who continue to think that they are critical to Apple's success. This was true for a time when they catered to media professionals. But they don't anymore, nor do they have to. Apple's entire desktop/laptop hardware business accounts for 12% of their revenue and falling. They're a pure consumer company now, not a computer/tech company anymore. There's simply more money in it. That's why their bread and butter OS, iOS, is so completely locked down compared to all of their competitors. There's no reason for them not to follow suit on the desktop/laptop and get their 30% there as well.
grey-area 13y ago
IMO it's clearly apples intention to move to a controlled App Store model on OS x as quickly as possible. Editing system prefs is just a stopgap to prevent complaints, and at some point they will remove the option.

JohnTHaller 13y ago

I wonder what will happen to apps like Firefox when Apple switches Mac OS to App Store only by default and implement some of the restrictions in iOS in the Mac app store. Restrictions like no Javascript allowed. Sure, apps like Chrome can go the same route as they do on iOS and build a custom Chrome skin atop the slower Mobile Safari engine available to 3rd party apps and always be a slower 2nd place browser. But Firefox? If it's just another slower webkit skin, it's not Firefox. Which is why there's no Firefox on iOS.

rplacd 13y ago
Assuming none of the rest of the infrastructure'll change - I'd consider working with possibilities as future "when"s impractical enough; a user'll go download Firefox, the standard Gatekeeper denial message'll pop up: "Firefox" can't be opened because it was not downloaded from the Mac App Store. Your security preferences allow installation of only apps from the Mac App Store. Safari downloaded this file today at... And the user'll either trip over the message and give up in frustration - there will be a class of user who'll visually pattern-match, rather than engage with a meaningful back-and-forth with their computer - or pop into the System Preferences, find Security waiting for them, and off they go. Fairly banal, but by far and large that's because the assumption that switching the default to the MAS-only option would be a novel attempt at total exclusion shouldn't be true, give or take the major assumption outlined above: not so when the current default's in fact "Mac App Store and identified developers" - narrowing the locus of trusted sources, then, is a change that should happen independently of how easy it'll be to get an unsigned app running.
- JohnTHaller 13y ago
  The default used to be the bottom option which allows all apps. Then Apple switched it to App Store and Publishers that paid Apple $99 with the introduction of Gatekeeper. They'll switch it to App Store only by default soon enough. I'd wager that when Apple switches it to Mac App Store only by default, lots of open source developers will simply give up on Macs. I was planning on developing for Mac myself. Even bought a second hand Macbook to fire things up. But the way Apple works, I just don't trust that it'll be viable in a couple years. Given Apple's arbitrary application of rules in the iOS ecosystem, I have a dim view of the Mac's future in terms of openness. I decided instead to continue to focus on Windows and expand into *nix and Android.
  - rplacd 13y ago
    I doubt open-source developers were paying to have their executables codesigned in the first place - I'd assumed in the argument above, at the very least, that the Gatekeeper denial isn't the silent suppression the iOS kernel uses; and on that basis little may as well change for them. Projecting that Apple'll change both the default position of a radio button and their marginalia and messaging around Gatekeeper is different (as a somewhat more substantial change) from your premise, though.
    - JohnTHaller 13y ago
      A 3rd party to VLC tried getting VLC in the Mac App Store and then later it was pulled for violating the GPL. VLC had to relicense their whole code base to get in the App Store fully legally. Most open source projects will be unable to do that due to the sheer number of contributors and resistance to hobbling the copyleft license on their code. Most of us that had been watching Apple had projected that Apple would launch a Mac App store and make it the main place to get Mac software while still keeping clauses in their App Store license that are GPL hostile. That came to pass. As for Gatekeeper, expect that Apple will switch the setting in the next couple years. After all, Mac went from allowing installs of any software by default to restricting unsigned apps, essentially going from the lowest Gatekeeper setting to the middle, with little fanfair and minimal pushback from their userbase. They'll have an easy time taking it the next step as well. It's only really holdouts like Adobe that aren't in the app store that matter at this point. And Apple will likely force them into the App Store to get their 30% cut in the next couple years with the Gatekeeper change. All of this fits with Apple's core values of making things easy, exercising complete control, and forcing an excessive revenue share from all publishers. It already works that way for iPhone/iPad/iPod apps, music, videos and books. The only holdout is Mac apps and that will happen soon enough. The only folks that usually argue that it won't are the so-called Mac power-users who continue to think that they are critical to Apple's success. This was true for a time when they catered to media professionals. But they don't anymore, nor do they have to. Apple's entire desktop/laptop hardware business accounts for 12% of their revenue and falling. They're a pure consumer company now, not a computer/tech company anymore. There's simply more money in it. That's why their bread and butter OS, iOS, is so completely locked down compared to all of their competitors. There's no reason for them not to follow suit on the desktop/laptop and get their 30% there as well.

grey-area 13y ago

IMO it's clearly apples intention to move to a controlled App Store model on OS x as quickly as possible. Editing system prefs is just a stopgap to prevent complaints, and at some point they will remove the option.