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I've been offline for a bit. Has anyone made the point that Edward Snowden is today's Nelson Mandela? I'm recalling a conversation I had with someone born and

by F_J_H 13y ago

I've been offline for a bit. Has anyone made the point that Edward Snowden is today's Nelson Mandela? I'm recalling a conversation I had with someone born and raised in South Africa, who said Mandela was in jail for a reason as he was a terrorist who broke the law, (which of course has been much discussed recently). Someone else chimed in something like "it's different when you break laws to right an injustice..." It's a complex issue, and I'd be surprised if someone hasn't already made the connection. Edit: clarity

ronaldx 13y ago
Yulia Tymoshenko is more directly comparable.
- r0h1n 13y ago
  Eh? How so and how on earth?
  - dijit 13y ago
    Because she was a prisoner of all her wealth before becoming prime minister? \s
  - ronaldx 13y ago
    I would firstly say I don't think there are any good modern-day comparisons to Nelson Mandela, and I don't think this is a productive discussion. However, at least Tymoshenko is a political leader who is imprisoned by her home state for her continuing expression of and leadership in opposition to unjust policy; Snowden is none of these things, and I cannot imagine him taking that role in the future.
chrisdevereux 13y ago
Mandela was respected for what he did after being released from prison, rather than what he did before going to prison. When oppressive and divisive regimes fall, it often happens violently and they end up being replaced by regimes that are just as bad if not worse (see: Tsarist Russia, White-majority Rhodesia, many other postcolonial states). That didn't happen in SA, and Mandela is credited with that. If the world ends up looking way more dystopian scifi than it does at the moment, there's maybe a scenario where Snowden ends up being today's Nelson Mandela, but I wouldn't bet on it.
- zorked 13y ago
  I thought there was this world-wide campaign to free Mandela while he was in prison as well. Surely it couldn't be informed by what he would do in the future.
  - alphakappa 13y ago
    There was. I remember signing a petition as a kid in a school in a country across the world from SA.
  - arethuza 13y ago
    There was a huge campaign to free Mandela in the 1980s, including the memorable song "Free Nelson Mandela" by The Special AKA: http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/dec/09/jerry-dammers-free-nelson-mandela http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/dec/09/jerry-dammers-f...
- Crito 13y ago
  > Mandela was respected for what he did after being released from prison, rather than what he did before going to prison. He can be respected for both. Many of us do respect him for the totality of what he was, not just what he was later in life.
  - chrisdevereux 13y ago
    Oh, that's totally true. I didn't mean to suggest that he isn't respected for his earlier actions (which, reading it back, I kinda did). But I don't think he'd be thought about the same way if it wasn't for the second act. A lot of people are unfairly imprisoned by despotic governments. Not many become unifying figures in the way that Mandela did. So I don't think the comparison to Snowden is a good one.
saraid216 13y ago
Sorry, I missed the part in Mandela's biography where he avoided jail time by skipping the country, and then proceeded to go dark in order to continue avoiding jail time. Snowden is better compared to spies than to revolutionaries. At best, he's a Loki.
- genwin 13y ago
  Fighters of injustice needn't submit to jail in my book. No drop in hero status for Snowden.
  - spacebe4time 13y ago
    "An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law" -- Martin Luther King Jr.
  - bct 13y ago
    spacebe4time: You have been hellbanned for several months.
    - evacuationdrill 13y ago
      I've seen this before, on the same user. How, if he is hellbanned, do you see that he's trying to post? Is it unlocked on seasoned accounts similar to downmods?
      - nilkn 13y ago
        I've seen this before too and have wondered the same thing.
        krapp 13y ago
        turn 'showdead' on in your profile.
chasing 13y ago
> I've been offline for a bit. Has anyone made the point that Edward Snowden is today's Nelson Mandela? Probably not, because it's a very poor comparison.
- F_J_H 13y ago
  I should have been more clear on what someone may try to compare. Nelson Mandela was considered a terrorist by authorities in power at the time, and was accused of treason, as is Snowden I believe. History judges Mandela otherwise, and deems him a hero. Will the same be true for Snowden? I guess it really is the same old debate that has been going on - is Snowden a hero or a traitor guilty of treason, and how will the answer to that question differ, if at all, in 25 to 30 years? Nothing new here besides the context in which the question is posed, which may or may not be valid.
Ihmahr 13y ago
I did within an hour, indirectly. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6857657 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6857657

by F_J_H 13y ago

ronaldx 13y ago

Yulia Tymoshenko is more directly comparable.

r0h1n 13y ago
Eh? How so and how on earth?
- dijit 13y ago
  Because she was a prisoner of all her wealth before becoming prime minister? \s
- ronaldx 13y ago
  I would firstly say I don't think there are any good modern-day comparisons to Nelson Mandela, and I don't think this is a productive discussion. However, at least Tymoshenko is a political leader who is imprisoned by her home state for her continuing expression of and leadership in opposition to unjust policy; Snowden is none of these things, and I cannot imagine him taking that role in the future.

chrisdevereux 13y ago

Mandela was respected for what he did after being released from prison, rather than what he did before going to prison. When oppressive and divisive regimes fall, it often happens violently and they end up being replaced by regimes that are just as bad if not worse (see: Tsarist Russia, White-majority Rhodesia, many other postcolonial states). That didn't happen in SA, and Mandela is credited with that. If the world ends up looking way more dystopian scifi than it does at the moment, there's maybe a scenario where Snowden ends up being today's Nelson Mandela, but I wouldn't bet on it.

zorked 13y ago
I thought there was this world-wide campaign to free Mandela while he was in prison as well. Surely it couldn't be informed by what he would do in the future.
- alphakappa 13y ago
  There was. I remember signing a petition as a kid in a school in a country across the world from SA.
- arethuza 13y ago
  There was a huge campaign to free Mandela in the 1980s, including the memorable song "Free Nelson Mandela" by The Special AKA: http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/dec/09/jerry-dammers-free-nelson-mandela http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/dec/09/jerry-dammers-f...
Crito 13y ago
> Mandela was respected for what he did after being released from prison, rather than what he did before going to prison. He can be respected for both. Many of us do respect him for the totality of what he was, not just what he was later in life.
- chrisdevereux 13y ago
  Oh, that's totally true. I didn't mean to suggest that he isn't respected for his earlier actions (which, reading it back, I kinda did). But I don't think he'd be thought about the same way if it wasn't for the second act. A lot of people are unfairly imprisoned by despotic governments. Not many become unifying figures in the way that Mandela did. So I don't think the comparison to Snowden is a good one.

saraid216 13y ago

Sorry, I missed the part in Mandela's biography where he avoided jail time by skipping the country, and then proceeded to go dark in order to continue avoiding jail time. Snowden is better compared to spies than to revolutionaries. At best, he's a Loki.

genwin 13y ago
Fighters of injustice needn't submit to jail in my book. No drop in hero status for Snowden.
- spacebe4time 13y ago
  "An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law" -- Martin Luther King Jr.
- bct 13y ago
  spacebe4time: You have been hellbanned for several months.
  - evacuationdrill 13y ago
    I've seen this before, on the same user. How, if he is hellbanned, do you see that he's trying to post? Is it unlocked on seasoned accounts similar to downmods?
    - nilkn 13y ago
      I've seen this before too and have wondered the same thing.
      - krapp 13y ago
        turn 'showdead' on in your profile.

chasing 13y ago

> I've been offline for a bit. Has anyone made the point that Edward Snowden is today's Nelson Mandela? Probably not, because it's a very poor comparison.

F_J_H 13y ago
I should have been more clear on what someone may try to compare. Nelson Mandela was considered a terrorist by authorities in power at the time, and was accused of treason, as is Snowden I believe. History judges Mandela otherwise, and deems him a hero. Will the same be true for Snowden? I guess it really is the same old debate that has been going on - is Snowden a hero or a traitor guilty of treason, and how will the answer to that question differ, if at all, in 25 to 30 years? Nothing new here besides the context in which the question is posed, which may or may not be valid.

Ihmahr 13y ago

I did within an hour, indirectly. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6857657 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6857657