4 ms·

I've two laptops, one with Mac OS X and one with Linux. I use both for development but as a client I prefer Mac OS X that Just Works. It was fun years ago to ha

by antirez 17y ago

I've two laptops, one with Mac OS X and one with Linux. I use both for development but as a client I prefer Mac OS X that Just Works. It was fun years ago to hack on config files and even to write my own device drivers when it was needed, it was a game with the benefit of learning a lot of stuff, but seriously, I expected Linux to be mature enough after a few years... instead it's the same problems again and again. All my wishes for Linux are instead incarnated by Mac OS X, so after more than 10 years of only linux one year ago I switched to mac os x, and I'm very happy so far.

jamesbritt 17y ago
I have a Mac mini and Linux laptop, and use both for development, but prefer Linux Kubuntu that Just Works. <snarky comments about quirky Leopard UI elided> Not sure what your specific issues are, but I've been finding development on Linux to be much more accommodating for me.
- path 17y ago
  Linux seems to be a development "Just Works" environment, e.g. apt just works, and getting dependencies is simple, or at least reliable. On the mac getting libraries can be painful with MacPorts (I don't use Fink, does anyone know if it's better?)
  - stewiecat 17y ago
    Why bother with macports? I installed XCode and just download the source and do the ./configure;make;sudo make install dance.
- zimbabwe 17y ago
  What about the Leopard UI is snarky? As an interface geek, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it. The specific issues the OP mentioned were installing drivers and tweaking system preferences.
  - jamesbritt 17y ago
    "What about the Leopard UI is snarky? " My typed, then deleted, comments were snarky. I didn't see any value in making biased, preference-based complaints about how Leopard does things vs. what I like to do (i.e., The Right Way. :) ). But I know that most discussions about UIs tend to be full of such subjective assertions, so my little aside was my meta-comment. Or something like that. For me (as others have pointed out as well), the ease of apt-get, and the wealth of OSS tools that seem to play better on Linux than on OSX, is the real win. (Perhaps my biggest complaint about the OSX UI is how much I have to use the mouse to manipulate GUI items. Maybe that's just lack of experience on OSX, but Kubuntu Just Works for me. )
timdorr 17y ago
Speaking particularly about hacking on my OS of choice, I've got to hand it to the MacPorts crew for making that kind of thing possible without serious headaches. I've got a custom build of Apache, PHP (yes, I know...) and MySQL alongside my desktop OS tools that I love to use. It's a best of both worlds. Mac OS X from the developer's perspective is basically Linux done right.
- moe 17y ago
  Mac OS X from the developer's perspective is basically Linux done right. That's an often-cited overgeneralization. I'm a developer and OSX is not Linux done right for me. In my book the OSX window management is ridiculously clumsy and gives me nowhere near the speed/control that I have under ion3. For example: The latter gives me tabs on every frame, that means I can rapidly tab through any windows I have attached there, without moving my eyes. It also lets me setup multiple parallel mini-IDEs without thinking, because everything stays in place and never overlaps - unless I explicitly move it or make it so. People often get dizzy watching me because my workflow involves a lot of muscle memory; I know which sequence of keystrokes gets me where, hence my edit/compile/test roundtrips are quite a bit faster than what I've seen on eclipse or OSX jockeys - who commonly have to fall back to the cable-rat for any sequence that deviates from what their IDE anticipates (e.g. to juggle a few config files along the line). For bragging rights, my sequence to setup a new "mini-IDE" with a 50/50 horizontal split (browser window full width on top) and a 50/50 vertical split in the bottom frame (two terminal windows each in left/right): * F9, Enter (new desktop) * Alt+s (split horizontal) * Alt+Down (move to bottom frame) * Alt+d (split vertical) * F1, F1 (launch two xterms, left) * Alt+right (move to right frame) * F1, F1 (launch two xterms, right) * Alt+up (move to top frame) * F5 (launch browser) That sequence takes me under 5 seconds, zero thinking and ofcourse I have the freedom to create any layout appropiate for the task at hand, with just a few keystrokes. These sequences are my bread & butter (have 7 virtual desktops open for various tasks right now). I can not imagine going back to an old-fashioned mouse-driven window manager ever again. So, show me functionality like that on OSX, then we can start talking about the other areas where OSX falls short for me.
  - wiemersl 17y ago
kashif 17y ago
What rubbish, a Mac doesnt 'just work'. Dont't get me wrong - Macs are good but this high ground is BS. @antirez what device driver did you have to write for linux, can you point me to your source code? And seriously, linux has matured significantly, what distribution have you tried? And how about quoting specific stuff instead of the some general gyaan.
- chewbranca 17y ago
  Fact of the matter is OSX 'just works' better than anything else _I_ have personally used. Less hassles, less issues, less crashes than linux or windows. And when you have lots of people saying the same thing, its not 'high ground' its a result of having a unix based OS that you don't have to waste your time to have it work. I switched to OSX after using linux as my primary OS for about 5 or 6 years, and the big difference for me was that I didn't have to spend valuable time actually getting osx to work. Linux is amazingly customizable which can be great, but when it comes to getting work done all I care about is having a terminal, vim, and being able to run a local server to test my work. Anything else that I have to configure is just getting in my way. Edit: As much as I like OSX, there is only only app that I actually require that is OSX specific, and that is quicksilver, which for me completely changes my workflow and allows me to productively use a 13" laptop as my primary development machine without the need for an external monitor. I think also goes to show my point, that OSX doesn't necessarily have any spectacular features or applications that draw me too it, but really its the fact that it is a unix based OS that I can use without hassle.

by antirez 17y ago

jamesbritt 17y ago

I have a Mac mini and Linux laptop, and use both for development, but prefer Linux Kubuntu that Just Works. <snarky comments about quirky Leopard UI elided> Not sure what your specific issues are, but I've been finding development on Linux to be much more accommodating for me.

path 17y ago
Linux seems to be a development "Just Works" environment, e.g. apt just works, and getting dependencies is simple, or at least reliable. On the mac getting libraries can be painful with MacPorts (I don't use Fink, does anyone know if it's better?)
- stewiecat 17y ago
  Why bother with macports? I installed XCode and just download the source and do the ./configure;make;sudo make install dance.
zimbabwe 17y ago
What about the Leopard UI is snarky? As an interface geek, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it. The specific issues the OP mentioned were installing drivers and tweaking system preferences.
- jamesbritt 17y ago
  "What about the Leopard UI is snarky? " My typed, then deleted, comments were snarky. I didn't see any value in making biased, preference-based complaints about how Leopard does things vs. what I like to do (i.e., The Right Way. :) ). But I know that most discussions about UIs tend to be full of such subjective assertions, so my little aside was my meta-comment. Or something like that. For me (as others have pointed out as well), the ease of apt-get, and the wealth of OSS tools that seem to play better on Linux than on OSX, is the real win. (Perhaps my biggest complaint about the OSX UI is how much I have to use the mouse to manipulate GUI items. Maybe that's just lack of experience on OSX, but Kubuntu Just Works for me. )

timdorr 17y ago

Speaking particularly about hacking on my OS of choice, I've got to hand it to the MacPorts crew for making that kind of thing possible without serious headaches. I've got a custom build of Apache, PHP (yes, I know...) and MySQL alongside my desktop OS tools that I love to use. It's a best of both worlds. Mac OS X from the developer's perspective is basically Linux done right.

moe 17y ago
Mac OS X from the developer's perspective is basically Linux done right. That's an often-cited overgeneralization. I'm a developer and OSX is not Linux done right for me. In my book the OSX window management is ridiculously clumsy and gives me nowhere near the speed/control that I have under ion3. For example: The latter gives me tabs on every frame, that means I can rapidly tab through any windows I have attached there, without moving my eyes. It also lets me setup multiple parallel mini-IDEs without thinking, because everything stays in place and never overlaps - unless I explicitly move it or make it so. People often get dizzy watching me because my workflow involves a lot of muscle memory; I know which sequence of keystrokes gets me where, hence my edit/compile/test roundtrips are quite a bit faster than what I've seen on eclipse or OSX jockeys - who commonly have to fall back to the cable-rat for any sequence that deviates from what their IDE anticipates (e.g. to juggle a few config files along the line). For bragging rights, my sequence to setup a new "mini-IDE" with a 50/50 horizontal split (browser window full width on top) and a 50/50 vertical split in the bottom frame (two terminal windows each in left/right): * F9, Enter (new desktop) * Alt+s (split horizontal) * Alt+Down (move to bottom frame) * Alt+d (split vertical) * F1, F1 (launch two xterms, left) * Alt+right (move to right frame) * F1, F1 (launch two xterms, right) * Alt+up (move to top frame) * F5 (launch browser) That sequence takes me under 5 seconds, zero thinking and ofcourse I have the freedom to create any layout appropiate for the task at hand, with just a few keystrokes. These sequences are my bread & butter (have 7 virtual desktops open for various tasks right now). I can not imagine going back to an old-fashioned mouse-driven window manager ever again. So, show me functionality like that on OSX, then we can start talking about the other areas where OSX falls short for me.
- wiemersl 17y ago

kashif 17y ago

What rubbish, a Mac doesnt 'just work'. Dont't get me wrong - Macs are good but this high ground is BS. @antirez what device driver did you have to write for linux, can you point me to your source code? And seriously, linux has matured significantly, what distribution have you tried? And how about quoting specific stuff instead of the some general gyaan.

chewbranca 17y ago
Fact of the matter is OSX 'just works' better than anything else _I_ have personally used. Less hassles, less issues, less crashes than linux or windows. And when you have lots of people saying the same thing, its not 'high ground' its a result of having a unix based OS that you don't have to waste your time to have it work. I switched to OSX after using linux as my primary OS for about 5 or 6 years, and the big difference for me was that I didn't have to spend valuable time actually getting osx to work. Linux is amazingly customizable which can be great, but when it comes to getting work done all I care about is having a terminal, vim, and being able to run a local server to test my work. Anything else that I have to configure is just getting in my way. Edit: As much as I like OSX, there is only only app that I actually require that is OSX specific, and that is quicksilver, which for me completely changes my workflow and allows me to productively use a 13" laptop as my primary development machine without the need for an external monitor. I think also goes to show my point, that OSX doesn't necessarily have any spectacular features or applications that draw me too it, but really its the fact that it is a unix based OS that I can use without hassle.