6 ms·

Banks need to take on Amazon and Google or die

11 points by zt 13y ago

tomasien 13y ago
Interesting the mention of payment processors like PayPal or Dwolla but little mention of payments. If banks became the primary interface for making payments, that would change everything for businesses and allow the kind of data usage they're talking about here. That's what I'm working on, nice to see someone pointing out some of the things we've been talking about internally!
kwestro 13y ago
These content paywalls are killing me. I can't even read the story. Even one of my local newspapers decided to put up a paywall. They're losing a lot of readers because of it.
- evan_ 13y ago
  So pay the subscription fee.
  - dave5104 13y ago
    Except it's a sucky paywall for new readers/people who don't frequent the Financial Times. I don't recall ever reading anything on the Financial Times before; in fact, it's not even a familiar news source for me. And their paywall just prevented me from even reading one article. My reaction was to hit the back button and go check out the comments on HN for a summary/discussion. I'm not going to pay for something before becoming familiar with what I'm going to be buying. Their paywall just isn't a friendly experience for new readers.
  - krakensden 13y ago
    I have a subscription to a couple of news sources. I'm not super willing to just subscribe to things that show up on HN. I know FT is highly regarded, but the only articles I've ever successfully read on it are those bizarre fetishistic lunch interview things. There is some sort of balance you need to strike between porous and impenetrable with a paywall. FT is too closed to be compelling to me, and probably a lot of other people. More broadly, if you're putting a link on HN, it's your responsibility to make sure people can read it. If they can't, don't post it, please.
    - jurjenh 13y ago
      Micro-payments. Quick, easy, one-time. Then you don't need to worry about a thousand subscriptions to rarely-read sources. Sounds easy, but I don't believe anyone has something that works?
      - AnthonyMouse 13y ago
        Micro-payments have two fundamental problems: The first problem is inertia. You need a critical mass of users before anyone will bother to accept a particular payment processor, but users don't sign up if no one accepts the payment service. This is the reason why people still use Paypal. The second problem is fraud. If someone commits fraud over a matter of $0.20, what amount of resources can you really afford to spend investigating it? A micropayment processor that thoroughly investigates fraud will have to charge the sellers a large chunk of the payments they process, but one that doesn't will be bankrupted by fraudsters. Crypto currencies have some potential to break this by changing who eats the loss in the case of fraud. If it isn't the payment processor (or there is no payment processor) then micro-payments become viable. You still have problems with e.g. malicious software stealing bitcoins, but they're different problems that don't break micro-payments.
  - toomuchtodo 13y ago
    Or they could accept micropayments. I'd pay 50 cents to read the article.
- zt 13y ago
  I'm the OP. FT seems better at the paywall thing than NYT, for example. I couldn't quite figure out a way to link to the article that didn't bring up the paywall. (Admittedly I didn't try that hard).
  - dave5104 13y ago
    Here's a Google link: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2Fbc70c9fe-4e1d-11e3-8fa5-00144feabdc0.html&ei=pQOlUueiMJLloASS_IGwCA&usg=AFQjCNFV8AIF-xvjuNa6ejhKOziCfUs_Uw&sig2=u0YEb-XEoCH_ZB6KGbSLVQ&bvm=bv.57752919,d.cGU https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c... If Google is the referrer, FT drops the paywall.
    - travoltaj 13y ago
      That link didn't work for me, but google cache did. https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/bc70c9fe-4e1d-11e3-8fa5-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2mvWDIBZk https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http:/...
  - argumentum 13y ago
    search for the text of the link on google, that will get you past the paywall .. https://www.google.com/search?q=Banks+need+to+take+on+Amazon+and+Google+or+die https://www.google.com/search?q=Banks+need+to+take+on+Amazon...
- argumentum 13y ago
  Do something like the following: right click on the link, click "search with Google" in the context menu and navigate to the first link on the search results page. It's not that hard ..
- bladegash 13y ago
  Gannett has been trying an interesting concept on some of their web publications (Military Times, Army Times, Etc.). They have certain content that is marked "premium" that requires a subscription. You have three options to view the article: Subscribe on a monthly basis, subscribe for the day, or watch a 15 second advertisement. Watching the 15 second advertisement will give you 24 hours of access to any premium article. I'm sure this is done on other publications as well, but I thought it was pretty smart.
Urgo 13y ago
You can view the artical by googleing for it by the title (same as on HN) and then clicking the link from there (or change your referral site to google.com I suppose) https://www.google.com/search?q=Banks+need+to+take+on+Amazon+and+Google+or+die&oq=Banks+need+to+take+on+Amazon+and+Google+or+die https://www.google.com/search?q=Banks+need+to+take+on+Amazon...
jwheeler79 13y ago
This article is horseshit. Just because some random sees google/amazon disrupting other industries doesn't mean they'll disrupt banking too. Not saying it couldn't happen ever, but it has the same basis as saying google is going to disrupt the railroad industry or the carpet and flooring industry. There aren't any particularly strong signs that point to amazon wanting to service your mortgage anytime soon.
- hershel 13y ago
  One interesting sign(regarding commercial banking) is that amazon has started offering loans to some businesses who sell using it's platform , and is able to offer better terms using sales data they've got.
  - jwheeler79 13y ago
    I've heard of that. PayPal also has Bill Me Later, and there are niche players like Kabbage. They're all still a ways off from full scale banking operations like JP Morgan Chase. The big banks are nearly as large as Google in Market cap individually and have trillions of dollars worth of assets on their balance sheets. My point being they are players with the resources to go up against a google in Washington, D.C. If anyone is a threat to banking, I would say it is PayPal. They have over 100M people signed up in the US alone to transfer money, but that only competes with a small aspect of bank business (service fees), the larger parts being investment banking and loan operations/net interest income
x0x0 13y ago
I think banks are in deep trouble whether they know it or not. Google won't be able to compete -- their attitude towards customer service is to drop trou and shit on their customer. It's annoying enough when it's your email, but if I where to move $10-$100k of cash to them I would expect to pick up the phone and get a human being empowered to make decisions on the phone. I've been on the wrong side of their customer service enough that I actively try to prevent relatives and friends from depending on anything google makes. Amazon, however, loves coming into medium to high capital requirement low margin businesses and destroying the competition. I'm actually a little surprised they haven't been more aggressive here. The small credit unions that can offer local service and actually answer the phone may survive, but what differentiates citi/bofa/wellsfargo/bancorp etc? Not much that I can see -- unless you're a high net worth individual, there's little reason for most people who don't eg have international banking issues to bother with them. I've been a customer of a local credit union for nearly 5 years. In that time, I've entered a branch exactly once: when I opened my account. I've opened new accounts, had my credit card stolen, gotten fraudulent purchases refunded, purchased a car via a loan, refinanced another loan, and gotten a quote for a mortgage mostly online with a handful of phone calls.
- toomuchtodo 13y ago
  > but what differentiates citi/bofa/wellsfargo/bancorp etc? Not much that I can see -- unless you're a high net worth individual, there's little reason for most people who don't eg have international banking issues to bother with them. I actually switched from a big bank (PNC, great service but slow on the tech side to evolve) to Simple [http://www.simple.com http://www.simple.com]. I get a debit card, beautiful mobile and web apps, and I can do everything I could with a regular bank except going to a branch. And I never go to a branch (mobile deposit, ATM network, debit card, done). Their support is excellent as well, something I'd never get from Amazon or Google.
  - klous 13y ago
    One weird thing you can't do with Simple is deposit cash directly through any ATM. They do not allow that. The only way is to get a cashier's check or similar instrument OR deposit cash in an account that does accept cash then transfer the money (and wait several days for it to clear)
psay 13y ago
Any start-ups trying to help mortgage brokers / originators? Many like Ellie Mae, LPS and others feel like old school application vendors. Of the banks, who "gets it?"

11 points by zt 13y ago

Interesting the mention of payment processors like PayPal or Dwolla but little mention of payments. If banks became the primary interface for making payments, that would change everything for businesses and allow the kind of data usage they're talking about here. That's what I'm working on, nice to see someone pointing out some of the things we've been talking about internally!

kwestro 13y ago

These content paywalls are killing me. I can't even read the story. Even one of my local newspapers decided to put up a paywall. They're losing a lot of readers because of it.

evan_ 13y ago
So pay the subscription fee.
- dave5104 13y ago
  Except it's a sucky paywall for new readers/people who don't frequent the Financial Times. I don't recall ever reading anything on the Financial Times before; in fact, it's not even a familiar news source for me. And their paywall just prevented me from even reading one article. My reaction was to hit the back button and go check out the comments on HN for a summary/discussion. I'm not going to pay for something before becoming familiar with what I'm going to be buying. Their paywall just isn't a friendly experience for new readers.
- krakensden 13y ago
  I have a subscription to a couple of news sources. I'm not super willing to just subscribe to things that show up on HN. I know FT is highly regarded, but the only articles I've ever successfully read on it are those bizarre fetishistic lunch interview things. There is some sort of balance you need to strike between porous and impenetrable with a paywall. FT is too closed to be compelling to me, and probably a lot of other people. More broadly, if you're putting a link on HN, it's your responsibility to make sure people can read it. If they can't, don't post it, please.
  - jurjenh 13y ago
    Micro-payments. Quick, easy, one-time. Then you don't need to worry about a thousand subscriptions to rarely-read sources. Sounds easy, but I don't believe anyone has something that works?
    - AnthonyMouse 13y ago
      Micro-payments have two fundamental problems: The first problem is inertia. You need a critical mass of users before anyone will bother to accept a particular payment processor, but users don't sign up if no one accepts the payment service. This is the reason why people still use Paypal. The second problem is fraud. If someone commits fraud over a matter of $0.20, what amount of resources can you really afford to spend investigating it? A micropayment processor that thoroughly investigates fraud will have to charge the sellers a large chunk of the payments they process, but one that doesn't will be bankrupted by fraudsters. Crypto currencies have some potential to break this by changing who eats the loss in the case of fraud. If it isn't the payment processor (or there is no payment processor) then micro-payments become viable. You still have problems with e.g. malicious software stealing bitcoins, but they're different problems that don't break micro-payments.
- toomuchtodo 13y ago
  Or they could accept micropayments. I'd pay 50 cents to read the article.
zt 13y ago
I'm the OP. FT seems better at the paywall thing than NYT, for example. I couldn't quite figure out a way to link to the article that didn't bring up the paywall. (Admittedly I didn't try that hard).
- dave5104 13y ago
  Here's a Google link: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2Fbc70c9fe-4e1d-11e3-8fa5-00144feabdc0.html&ei=pQOlUueiMJLloASS_IGwCA&usg=AFQjCNFV8AIF-xvjuNa6ejhKOziCfUs_Uw&sig2=u0YEb-XEoCH_ZB6KGbSLVQ&bvm=bv.57752919,d.cGU https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c... If Google is the referrer, FT drops the paywall.
  - travoltaj 13y ago
    That link didn't work for me, but google cache did. https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/bc70c9fe-4e1d-11e3-8fa5-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2mvWDIBZk https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http:/...
- argumentum 13y ago
  search for the text of the link on google, that will get you past the paywall .. https://www.google.com/search?q=Banks+need+to+take+on+Amazon+and+Google+or+die https://www.google.com/search?q=Banks+need+to+take+on+Amazon...
argumentum 13y ago
Do something like the following: right click on the link, click "search with Google" in the context menu and navigate to the first link on the search results page. It's not that hard ..
bladegash 13y ago
Gannett has been trying an interesting concept on some of their web publications (Military Times, Army Times, Etc.). They have certain content that is marked "premium" that requires a subscription. You have three options to view the article: Subscribe on a monthly basis, subscribe for the day, or watch a 15 second advertisement. Watching the 15 second advertisement will give you 24 hours of access to any premium article. I'm sure this is done on other publications as well, but I thought it was pretty smart.

Urgo 13y ago

You can view the artical by googleing for it by the title (same as on HN) and then clicking the link from there (or change your referral site to google.com I suppose) https://www.google.com/search?q=Banks+need+to+take+on+Amazon+and+Google+or+die&oq=Banks+need+to+take+on+Amazon+and+Google+or+die https://www.google.com/search?q=Banks+need+to+take+on+Amazon...

jwheeler79 13y ago

This article is horseshit. Just because some random sees google/amazon disrupting other industries doesn't mean they'll disrupt banking too. Not saying it couldn't happen ever, but it has the same basis as saying google is going to disrupt the railroad industry or the carpet and flooring industry. There aren't any particularly strong signs that point to amazon wanting to service your mortgage anytime soon.

hershel 13y ago
One interesting sign(regarding commercial banking) is that amazon has started offering loans to some businesses who sell using it's platform , and is able to offer better terms using sales data they've got.
- jwheeler79 13y ago
  I've heard of that. PayPal also has Bill Me Later, and there are niche players like Kabbage. They're all still a ways off from full scale banking operations like JP Morgan Chase. The big banks are nearly as large as Google in Market cap individually and have trillions of dollars worth of assets on their balance sheets. My point being they are players with the resources to go up against a google in Washington, D.C. If anyone is a threat to banking, I would say it is PayPal. They have over 100M people signed up in the US alone to transfer money, but that only competes with a small aspect of bank business (service fees), the larger parts being investment banking and loan operations/net interest income

x0x0 13y ago

I think banks are in deep trouble whether they know it or not. Google won't be able to compete -- their attitude towards customer service is to drop trou and shit on their customer. It's annoying enough when it's your email, but if I where to move $10-$100k of cash to them I would expect to pick up the phone and get a human being empowered to make decisions on the phone. I've been on the wrong side of their customer service enough that I actively try to prevent relatives and friends from depending on anything google makes. Amazon, however, loves coming into medium to high capital requirement low margin businesses and destroying the competition. I'm actually a little surprised they haven't been more aggressive here. The small credit unions that can offer local service and actually answer the phone may survive, but what differentiates citi/bofa/wellsfargo/bancorp etc? Not much that I can see -- unless you're a high net worth individual, there's little reason for most people who don't eg have international banking issues to bother with them. I've been a customer of a local credit union for nearly 5 years. In that time, I've entered a branch exactly once: when I opened my account. I've opened new accounts, had my credit card stolen, gotten fraudulent purchases refunded, purchased a car via a loan, refinanced another loan, and gotten a quote for a mortgage mostly online with a handful of phone calls.

toomuchtodo 13y ago
> but what differentiates citi/bofa/wellsfargo/bancorp etc? Not much that I can see -- unless you're a high net worth individual, there's little reason for most people who don't eg have international banking issues to bother with them. I actually switched from a big bank (PNC, great service but slow on the tech side to evolve) to Simple [http://www.simple.com http://www.simple.com]. I get a debit card, beautiful mobile and web apps, and I can do everything I could with a regular bank except going to a branch. And I never go to a branch (mobile deposit, ATM network, debit card, done). Their support is excellent as well, something I'd never get from Amazon or Google.
- klous 13y ago
  One weird thing you can't do with Simple is deposit cash directly through any ATM. They do not allow that. The only way is to get a cashier's check or similar instrument OR deposit cash in an account that does accept cash then transfer the money (and wait several days for it to clear)

psay 13y ago

Any start-ups trying to help mortgage brokers / originators? Many like Ellie Mae, LPS and others feel like old school application vendors. Of the banks, who "gets it?"