7 ms·

Shameful Profiling of the Mentally Ill

81 points by zzzeek 13y ago

greenyoda 13y ago
The author of this article, Andrew Solomon, wrote a book entitled The Noonday Demon: An Atlas of Depression[1] that is based in part on his own struggles with depression. [1] http://andrewsolomon.com/books/the-noonday-demon/ http://andrewsolomon.com/books/the-noonday-demon/
peeters 13y ago
I appreciate that this is getting press on the American side of the border. This was in the Canadian news cycles a little while ago, but understandably the focus there was on how U.S. Border agents were able to access her medical history in the first place--with speculation that the Canadian government had some form of information sharing that involved medical history. So it's great to see the focus on the other side of this issue as well, which is why the U.S. is profiling in this way in the first place.
michaelochurch 13y ago
It's almost hypocritical. Our lack of universal healthcare causes so many otherwise mildly ill people to become much sicker. (U.S. health insurers, who make much of their money by throwing red tape at people until they just give up on legit claims, are especially vicious toward those with mental illness, who are statistically more likely to give up easily.) Then the U.S. says, "no sick people! We've made too many of our own!"
- jasonlotito 13y ago
  Just to offer the anecdotal opposite: we left Canada precisely because the health care system harmed my son. Since living n the US, both of them have gotten help for far, far less than it would have cost in Canada to go the private route, and with a dramatically shorter wait time. This is without needing to use private insurance.
  - auctiontheory 13y ago
    Are you saying that you're getting better healthcare than in Canada, at much lower cost, while being uninsured in the US? That's hard to believe. Healthcare is not free in the US, so someone is paying for the services your family is receiving. Perhaps you meant that you have high-quality employer-paid insurance. In that case, sure, once you're hooked up "within the system" it works. Don't lose your job!
    - jasonlotito 13y ago
      > Are you saying that you're getting better healthcare than in Canada, at much lower cost, while being uninsured in the US? No, that's not at all what I said. Not at all. > That's hard to believe. Oh, the problem is one where my facts are conflicting with your belief structure. I got it. What part specifically? The part where I actually got care despite not getting any care after over a year waiting? That the cost is so much substantially lower that it's essentially free? And what does my insurance have to do with it? Yes, I have insurance, but it doesn't cover the cost. The state does. My job has nothing to do with it. I meant exactly what I said. Even the part about harming my son.
      - MacsHeadroom 13y ago
        > Yes, I have insurance, but it doesn't cover the cost. The state does. My job has nothing to do with it. Which state would that be? Did you come from Alberta or something? Sorry if I come off as incredulous. But your story flies in the face of a lot more than just my own anecdotal experience.
  - alanctgardner2 13y ago
    Having survived a childhood of OHIP, I find it hard to believe that your son received a significantly worse quality of care because you were in Canada. I don't doubt some doctors are better than others, but that happens everywhere.
    - michaelochurch 13y ago
auctiontheory 13y ago
This seems relevant to the thread about "should I use my real name online?" You just never know how information about you could be used against you, maybe ten or twenty years from now, maybe half a world away. You never know. (I'm not too excited about Google dredging up 25-year-old Usenet posts from my college days.)
- thenerdfiles 13y ago
  Side note: What about just consistently using a handle? And that handle being part of your "brand"? What if Jay-Z decided to become a web developer? Primary note: African Americans could easily be labeled given the qualification of the nebulous "threat" clause, when it is in fact Old America (those likely to celebrate their licensed gun-ownership) that is going about shooting them in the face[0]. White supremicists, Men's Rights Advocates of many stripes, and the Tea Party are stridently making cases that African Americans are sub-human[1]; wherein it stands to reason they so too could be required to have "clearance" given their supposed "lack" of psychological integrity, etc. There are many nets and dragnets being cast to categorize arbitrary lots of "unmentionable" society. There's a significant rate of undiagnosed depression in the African American community[2]. [0]: http://www.upworthy.com/she-knocked-on-his-door-to-ask-for-help-he-shot-her-dead-why-isnt-justice-being-served?c=ufb1 http://www.upworthy.com/she-knocked-on-his-door-to-ask-for-h... [1]: http://whitelocust.wordpress.com/morality-and-abstract-thinking-how-africans-may-differ-from-westerners/ http://whitelocust.wordpress.com/morality-and-abstract-think... [2]: http://www.pbs.org/thisemotionallife/blogs/black-and-depressed-two-african-american-women-break-silence http://www.pbs.org/thisemotionallife/blogs/black-and-depress...
  - WalterBright 13y ago
    > Tea Party are stridently making cases that African Americans are sub-human[1]; Your reference [1] makes no reference to the Tea Party.
    - thenerdfiles 13y ago
      It saddens me that you destroyed my sentence. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/24/maddow-tea-party-apparently-no-longer-embarrassed-to-flaunt-its-racist-neo-confederate-roots/ http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/24/maddow-tea-party-appar... That blog is an aggregation of Tea Party writers and commenters. Please... don't do what you're doing.
d0ugie 13y ago
While I am sympathetic to the woman in the article, consider this: I am bipolar type one (the wilder type), ultra rapid cyclicity with psychotic features. I have had countless manic episodes complete with week-long total sleeplessness, hallucinations (visual and auditory) and delusions ranging from believing I was a CIA agent to thinking the CIA is out to get me. And I've done some really crazy, stupid things of.. questionable judgment, including sending very crazy faxes to the White House. Been hospitalized against my will more than once. But now I take several drugs and am very well-treated, extremely "high-functioning" in the clinical sense. I've been married happily and nicely employed for years. While being manic is a lot of fun, I have no inclination to fall off the treatment wagon. I'm a success story basically. But suppose I wanted a government job requiring security clearance to privileged information, should I be trusted given that I've been mentally healthy for several years, without incident? I think the answer is no. Obviously. Manic depressives are, relative to everybody else, prone to poor judgment, psychosis, run-ins with the law, suicide, not taking their medicines, unemployment, broken relationships and vices in general. Call me a self-hating nut but if I had a daughter (and parenthetically I do intend to have a kid, even though the kid has a fifty fifty chance of having the disease), would I want a bipolar boy to date my daughter, however well-treated he might be? Absolutely not. So regarding my people, those with mood disorders (not just bipolar), while I appreciate the anti-discriminatory progressive stuff to make things easier for my people, between you and me, do yourself a favor, whether you are an employer, a money lender, an army recruiter, an immigration policy maker or a dad - or even a bipolar person yourself who's on the dating market, keep your distance from us manic depressives as too often we are bad news. ... Though we are more creative.
- S4M 13y ago
  I agree that some background checks need to be done for sensitive jobs, such as government jobs you describe. However the article is about a woman who was just crossing the border between Canada and US. This should have just been a formality, provided she wasn't carrying weapons or drugs, and the fact that the check was so thorough for this is what scares me the most in the article. Basically how long do we need to wait before the boarding agents scan our gmails and participation to any internet forum or social network to assert we are not gonna do crazy things once we have entered in the US?
blisterpeanuts 13y ago
U.S. law (Citizenship and Immigration Services, Act 212) (http://www.uscis.gov/laws/act http://www.uscis.gov/laws/act) states that aliens are inadmissible if they have: a physical or mental disorder and behavior associated with the disorder that may pose, or has posed, a threat to the property, safety, or welfare of the alien or others, or have had such a disorder and it is likely to recur. It sounds as though this lady's condition does not meet these requirements, and hence she should have been admitted. The issue, in this case, is that the immigration agents actually searched online for her medical/criminal history and found evidence of mental disorder[1]. Apparently, the agent in this case did not ascertain whether her condition presents a danger to herself or others currently. She states that it does not, and presumably she has a psychiatric sign-off to that effect. Unfortunately, aliens have very little power to effect change in U.S. laws and abuse of those laws by the border guards. You just try to get past the border people, then breath a sigh of relief. If you can't get through, you are angry but your own government is unlikely to act. This is just more fuel for the argument that our border control needs a major overhaul. Certainly we should be scrutinizing people coming in from other countries, especially ones who come from certain Middle Eastern and central Asian places who are interested in learning to fly jet planes and so forth. But the vast, overwhelming majority of visitors are good, honest people whom we should and must welcome. All I can think of to help solve this problem is to write to your Congressional delegation and get the issue onto the agenda. [1] http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/dhs-agent-cites-private-medical-history-deny-canadian-entry-us http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/dhs-agent-cites-p...
Daniel_Newby 13y ago
ADHD is a much larger threat than all other mental illnesses combined. For every schizo with a rifle in a clock tower, there are 10,000 people with poor impulse control crashing cars. As usual, FedGov is oblivious to statistics.
- NAFV_P 13y ago
  I'm very clumsy (I might have ADHD myself) but I have never accidentally killed someone.

81 points by zzzeek 13y ago

The author of this article, Andrew Solomon, wrote a book entitled The Noonday Demon: An Atlas of Depression[1] that is based in part on his own struggles with depression. [1] http://andrewsolomon.com/books/the-noonday-demon/ http://andrewsolomon.com/books/the-noonday-demon/

peeters 13y ago

I appreciate that this is getting press on the American side of the border. This was in the Canadian news cycles a little while ago, but understandably the focus there was on how U.S. Border agents were able to access her medical history in the first place--with speculation that the Canadian government had some form of information sharing that involved medical history. So it's great to see the focus on the other side of this issue as well, which is why the U.S. is profiling in this way in the first place.

michaelochurch 13y ago

It's almost hypocritical. Our lack of universal healthcare causes so many otherwise mildly ill people to become much sicker. (U.S. health insurers, who make much of their money by throwing red tape at people until they just give up on legit claims, are especially vicious toward those with mental illness, who are statistically more likely to give up easily.) Then the U.S. says, "no sick people! We've made too many of our own!"

jasonlotito 13y ago
Just to offer the anecdotal opposite: we left Canada precisely because the health care system harmed my son. Since living n the US, both of them have gotten help for far, far less than it would have cost in Canada to go the private route, and with a dramatically shorter wait time. This is without needing to use private insurance.
- auctiontheory 13y ago
  Are you saying that you're getting better healthcare than in Canada, at much lower cost, while being uninsured in the US? That's hard to believe. Healthcare is not free in the US, so someone is paying for the services your family is receiving. Perhaps you meant that you have high-quality employer-paid insurance. In that case, sure, once you're hooked up "within the system" it works. Don't lose your job!
  - jasonlotito 13y ago
    > Are you saying that you're getting better healthcare than in Canada, at much lower cost, while being uninsured in the US? No, that's not at all what I said. Not at all. > That's hard to believe. Oh, the problem is one where my facts are conflicting with your belief structure. I got it. What part specifically? The part where I actually got care despite not getting any care after over a year waiting? That the cost is so much substantially lower that it's essentially free? And what does my insurance have to do with it? Yes, I have insurance, but it doesn't cover the cost. The state does. My job has nothing to do with it. I meant exactly what I said. Even the part about harming my son.
    - MacsHeadroom 13y ago
      > Yes, I have insurance, but it doesn't cover the cost. The state does. My job has nothing to do with it. Which state would that be? Did you come from Alberta or something? Sorry if I come off as incredulous. But your story flies in the face of a lot more than just my own anecdotal experience.
- alanctgardner2 13y ago
  Having survived a childhood of OHIP, I find it hard to believe that your son received a significantly worse quality of care because you were in Canada. I don't doubt some doctors are better than others, but that happens everywhere.
  - michaelochurch 13y ago

auctiontheory 13y ago

This seems relevant to the thread about "should I use my real name online?" You just never know how information about you could be used against you, maybe ten or twenty years from now, maybe half a world away. You never know. (I'm not too excited about Google dredging up 25-year-old Usenet posts from my college days.)

thenerdfiles 13y ago
Side note: What about just consistently using a handle? And that handle being part of your "brand"? What if Jay-Z decided to become a web developer? Primary note: African Americans could easily be labeled given the qualification of the nebulous "threat" clause, when it is in fact Old America (those likely to celebrate their licensed gun-ownership) that is going about shooting them in the face[0]. White supremicists, Men's Rights Advocates of many stripes, and the Tea Party are stridently making cases that African Americans are sub-human[1]; wherein it stands to reason they so too could be required to have "clearance" given their supposed "lack" of psychological integrity, etc. There are many nets and dragnets being cast to categorize arbitrary lots of "unmentionable" society. There's a significant rate of undiagnosed depression in the African American community[2]. [0]: http://www.upworthy.com/she-knocked-on-his-door-to-ask-for-help-he-shot-her-dead-why-isnt-justice-being-served?c=ufb1 http://www.upworthy.com/she-knocked-on-his-door-to-ask-for-h... [1]: http://whitelocust.wordpress.com/morality-and-abstract-thinking-how-africans-may-differ-from-westerners/ http://whitelocust.wordpress.com/morality-and-abstract-think... [2]: http://www.pbs.org/thisemotionallife/blogs/black-and-depressed-two-african-american-women-break-silence http://www.pbs.org/thisemotionallife/blogs/black-and-depress...
- WalterBright 13y ago
  > Tea Party are stridently making cases that African Americans are sub-human[1]; Your reference [1] makes no reference to the Tea Party.
  - thenerdfiles 13y ago
    It saddens me that you destroyed my sentence. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/24/maddow-tea-party-apparently-no-longer-embarrassed-to-flaunt-its-racist-neo-confederate-roots/ http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/24/maddow-tea-party-appar... That blog is an aggregation of Tea Party writers and commenters. Please... don't do what you're doing.

d0ugie 13y ago

While I am sympathetic to the woman in the article, consider this: I am bipolar type one (the wilder type), ultra rapid cyclicity with psychotic features. I have had countless manic episodes complete with week-long total sleeplessness, hallucinations (visual and auditory) and delusions ranging from believing I was a CIA agent to thinking the CIA is out to get me. And I've done some really crazy, stupid things of.. questionable judgment, including sending very crazy faxes to the White House. Been hospitalized against my will more than once. But now I take several drugs and am very well-treated, extremely "high-functioning" in the clinical sense. I've been married happily and nicely employed for years. While being manic is a lot of fun, I have no inclination to fall off the treatment wagon. I'm a success story basically. But suppose I wanted a government job requiring security clearance to privileged information, should I be trusted given that I've been mentally healthy for several years, without incident? I think the answer is no. Obviously. Manic depressives are, relative to everybody else, prone to poor judgment, psychosis, run-ins with the law, suicide, not taking their medicines, unemployment, broken relationships and vices in general. Call me a self-hating nut but if I had a daughter (and parenthetically I do intend to have a kid, even though the kid has a fifty fifty chance of having the disease), would I want a bipolar boy to date my daughter, however well-treated he might be? Absolutely not. So regarding my people, those with mood disorders (not just bipolar), while I appreciate the anti-discriminatory progressive stuff to make things easier for my people, between you and me, do yourself a favor, whether you are an employer, a money lender, an army recruiter, an immigration policy maker or a dad - or even a bipolar person yourself who's on the dating market, keep your distance from us manic depressives as too often we are bad news. ... Though we are more creative.

S4M 13y ago
I agree that some background checks need to be done for sensitive jobs, such as government jobs you describe. However the article is about a woman who was just crossing the border between Canada and US. This should have just been a formality, provided she wasn't carrying weapons or drugs, and the fact that the check was so thorough for this is what scares me the most in the article. Basically how long do we need to wait before the boarding agents scan our gmails and participation to any internet forum or social network to assert we are not gonna do crazy things once we have entered in the US?

blisterpeanuts 13y ago

U.S. law (Citizenship and Immigration Services, Act 212) (http://www.uscis.gov/laws/act http://www.uscis.gov/laws/act) states that aliens are inadmissible if they have: a physical or mental disorder and behavior associated with the disorder that may pose, or has posed, a threat to the property, safety, or welfare of the alien or others, or have had such a disorder and it is likely to recur. It sounds as though this lady's condition does not meet these requirements, and hence she should have been admitted. The issue, in this case, is that the immigration agents actually searched online for her medical/criminal history and found evidence of mental disorder[1]. Apparently, the agent in this case did not ascertain whether her condition presents a danger to herself or others currently. She states that it does not, and presumably she has a psychiatric sign-off to that effect. Unfortunately, aliens have very little power to effect change in U.S. laws and abuse of those laws by the border guards. You just try to get past the border people, then breath a sigh of relief. If you can't get through, you are angry but your own government is unlikely to act. This is just more fuel for the argument that our border control needs a major overhaul. Certainly we should be scrutinizing people coming in from other countries, especially ones who come from certain Middle Eastern and central Asian places who are interested in learning to fly jet planes and so forth. But the vast, overwhelming majority of visitors are good, honest people whom we should and must welcome. All I can think of to help solve this problem is to write to your Congressional delegation and get the issue onto the agenda. [1] http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/dhs-agent-cites-private-medical-history-deny-canadian-entry-us http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/dhs-agent-cites-p...

Daniel_Newby 13y ago

ADHD is a much larger threat than all other mental illnesses combined. For every schizo with a rifle in a clock tower, there are 10,000 people with poor impulse control crashing cars. As usual, FedGov is oblivious to statistics.

NAFV_P 13y ago
I'm very clumsy (I might have ADHD myself) but I have never accidentally killed someone.