6 ms·

Dell tells staff: If you haven't got stomach for private era, leave

28 points by npalli 13y ago

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
lsc 13y ago
the first rule of employment: If someone offers you free money to leave? you take it.
- RougeFemme 13y ago
  Well, note who is explicitly excluded from the buyout: "People working in the Software Group will not be allowed to join VSP, neither will folk with vice president in their title, nor exec/ distinguished directors in engineering or employees in India or Singapore." I don't know who's included in the Software Group, but it probably includes a lot of people like those who read HN. I once worked for a company where buyouts were offered - we had seen the handwriting on the wall for quite a while. Engineers were excluded and I was an engineer. They came nowhere near their target buyout numbers and finally, grudgingly, offered buyouts to engineers. I took the buyout.
  - wsc981 13y ago
    I wonder, does this mean software engineers are too valuable to let go so easily? Or would there be some other train of thought.
    - friscobob 13y ago
      Dell Software Group is made of the many of the recent software acquisitions (Quest, KACE, Boomi, etc.) The group includes everyone from the software engineering teams to the sales and marketing folks. I can't speak to why they aren't eligible for the program.
    - dredmorbius 13y ago
      Could be that they're too valuable to pay to leave. Could be that the thought is that enough will want to leave regardless, without incentive. Paying severance generally includes some terms including non-disparagement, so not offering a sep could backfire if there's particularly juicy dirt to dish.
  - hkmurakami 13y ago
    Honestly, the "don't have the stomach for the private era" sounds completely hollow to me. This just looks like a generic cull that tries to masquerade as something else.
  - thought_alarm 13y ago
    Dell has a software group?
- rdl 13y ago
  You'd take the $2k vs. working at Zappos, or does the money have to be a material amount? I don't think I'd walk away from Tesla or SpaceX for $100k. (I might walk from Tesla for "a Model S", IFF I thought I could still go back a few months later, but that's just gaming the system.)
  - protomyth 13y ago
    not op, but "You'd take the $2k vs. working at Zappos, or does the money have to be a material amount?" Isn't that part of the Zappos standard procedure and not an "event" like this? If I read lsc correctly, then if some event occurs where the company offers money / severance to leave, you are better off leaving. I don't know if anyone has stats on this scenario, but I'm inclined to think the recovery is the long odds bet.
    - lsc 13y ago
      Yeah. that's pretty much it. If they are offering people money to leave, they are doing layoffs, but instead of firing the low-performers, they are getting rid of those most able to get other work. Now, sometimes it does work out for the company; if you've got no other options, sure, you will put up with worse treatment and do more work. either way, it's a pretty strong sign that the company will very shortly become a place I don't want to work.
  - lsc 13y ago
    I would /pay/ $2k to avoid working customer support for zappos. I'd pay rather more than that, in fact. Have you worked phone support? I only did so for a month, and it was probably the least pleasant job I've ever had.
    - rdl 13y ago
      True, true. I had a job where I essentially did nothing but customer support. It was actually pretty fun doing "field" support, and I like doing high-level support (remote, even; pre-sales is more interesting, but "fix this actual bug no one understands" is cool too), but doing first line phone support was hell. It was funny that the company was paying me $absurd but viewed it as "sunk cost" so something a $50-100k/yr person could have easily done became also my job description at times. Working for Zappos, at least based on their offices and culture, also appears to be a unique form of hell, but those attracted to the company probably would like it.
- jedberg 13y ago
  You're exactly the kind of person they are trying to get to leave -- someone who is only in it for the money and doesn't believe in the mission.
  - coldtea 13y ago
    In other words, the smart person who is not gonna stand for bullshit, and who is a professional that knows the end goal is creating value, not some BS "mission".
  - lsc 13y ago
    Yup, and if you want to play mind games with your employees, and pretend like it's not a monetary relationship, then the feeling is mutual. I provide enough real value that I can get an employer who respects me enough to be honest and up-front. We aren't family. Both of us are going to break off the relationship if we see a better deal. If you want me to stick around because I think the company will be better X years from now? Give me a significant amount of underwater options, and a position where I have a chance to move the share price. However, more relevant to this situation? Who do you think is going to take the cash and leave? Probably the people who can most easily get new jobs. Now, I'm the first to point out that your ability to get a job does not 100% correlate with your competency, but there is certainly some correlation. Your company is going to be dramatically worse off if the people who have other options leave. If you have to let people go? you want to get rid of your bottom performers, not the top performers.
    - cosmie 13y ago
      >> Your company is going to be dramatically worse off if the people who have other options leave. If you have to let people go? you want to get rid of your bottom performers, not the top performers. This is true, IFF your voluntary reduction process is indiscriminant in whom is approved. In the case of the Dell program, you have to "apply" for the voluntary layoff. In January they'll take all the applications and choose whom to let go. If they have no intention of reducing headcount in your group, you won't be accepted. If they do have intentions to reduce headcount in your group, but you're the best worker in the group, there's a strong chance they'll deny your application.
- tspiteri 13y ago
  Only if you can get another job easily. And I don't think this scheme is meant for those people, those people may very well be excluded from the scheme altogether.
  - lsc 13y ago
    >Only if you can get another job easily. Maybe. If you can't get another job, that implies you are getting paid above-market wages. If the company is in trouble and you are getting paid above market wages, how many more months is it going to be before they ask you to leave without a nice severance package?
- cbsmith 13y ago
  So, if a company were to offer its employees $1 to leave the day before their options vested, you'd say they should take?
rayiner 13y ago
If you believe it's about "the mission" I have a bridge to sell you. When management offers a buyout, it's about to cull the workforce. It's a go-to private equity trick. Silver Lake probably realizes that Dell can do just as much with a lot fewer people, so getting rid of the excess workforce will result in an instant shot in the arm for profits. That said, offering buyouts can be risky. On one hand, they're better for morale than just firing a bunch of people. On the other hand, anybody who has any sense knows that buyouts means that layoffs are imminent, and so the ones who have the most prospects elsewhere (i.e. the people you want to retain) will be the first ones to jump ship.
junto 13y ago
I remember when my share options were worth $52.
alan_cx 13y ago
Why not a wedge of cash to stay? That's what happened in one business I worked in but got bought out like this. We got told things would change, they needed our co-operation, it would mean possibly working a bit harder and getting used to new practices. So, here's a lump sum. BTW, only a very small number took the money and left afterwards. Problem they had was that in the industry, the deal was well known. Apparently interviews for some other firms in the same sector were awkward. "So, Mr Smith, you took the hand out a month ago, but here you are interviewing for us. Please tell us your opinions on loyalty?"
- _delirium 13y ago
  The company probably just wants to downsize, in which case offering people money to stay would be the wrong incentive. Voluntary severance packages are often offered when a company wants to get rid of staff without overt layoffs. Sometimes followed by layoffs anyway, if not enough people take the offer. The phrasing here makes it sound related to post-merger culture, but that letter is written in Corporate Newspeak, a dialect of English that is sometimes tricky to translate.

28 points by npalli 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

lsc 13y ago

the first rule of employment: If someone offers you free money to leave? you take it.

RougeFemme 13y ago
Well, note who is explicitly excluded from the buyout: "People working in the Software Group will not be allowed to join VSP, neither will folk with vice president in their title, nor exec/ distinguished directors in engineering or employees in India or Singapore." I don't know who's included in the Software Group, but it probably includes a lot of people like those who read HN. I once worked for a company where buyouts were offered - we had seen the handwriting on the wall for quite a while. Engineers were excluded and I was an engineer. They came nowhere near their target buyout numbers and finally, grudgingly, offered buyouts to engineers. I took the buyout.
- wsc981 13y ago
  I wonder, does this mean software engineers are too valuable to let go so easily? Or would there be some other train of thought.
  - friscobob 13y ago
    Dell Software Group is made of the many of the recent software acquisitions (Quest, KACE, Boomi, etc.) The group includes everyone from the software engineering teams to the sales and marketing folks. I can't speak to why they aren't eligible for the program.
  - dredmorbius 13y ago
    Could be that they're too valuable to pay to leave. Could be that the thought is that enough will want to leave regardless, without incentive. Paying severance generally includes some terms including non-disparagement, so not offering a sep could backfire if there's particularly juicy dirt to dish.
- hkmurakami 13y ago
  Honestly, the "don't have the stomach for the private era" sounds completely hollow to me. This just looks like a generic cull that tries to masquerade as something else.
- thought_alarm 13y ago
  Dell has a software group?
rdl 13y ago
You'd take the $2k vs. working at Zappos, or does the money have to be a material amount? I don't think I'd walk away from Tesla or SpaceX for $100k. (I might walk from Tesla for "a Model S", IFF I thought I could still go back a few months later, but that's just gaming the system.)
- protomyth 13y ago
  not op, but "You'd take the $2k vs. working at Zappos, or does the money have to be a material amount?" Isn't that part of the Zappos standard procedure and not an "event" like this? If I read lsc correctly, then if some event occurs where the company offers money / severance to leave, you are better off leaving. I don't know if anyone has stats on this scenario, but I'm inclined to think the recovery is the long odds bet.
  - lsc 13y ago
    Yeah. that's pretty much it. If they are offering people money to leave, they are doing layoffs, but instead of firing the low-performers, they are getting rid of those most able to get other work. Now, sometimes it does work out for the company; if you've got no other options, sure, you will put up with worse treatment and do more work. either way, it's a pretty strong sign that the company will very shortly become a place I don't want to work.
- lsc 13y ago
  I would /pay/ $2k to avoid working customer support for zappos. I'd pay rather more than that, in fact. Have you worked phone support? I only did so for a month, and it was probably the least pleasant job I've ever had.
  - rdl 13y ago
    True, true. I had a job where I essentially did nothing but customer support. It was actually pretty fun doing "field" support, and I like doing high-level support (remote, even; pre-sales is more interesting, but "fix this actual bug no one understands" is cool too), but doing first line phone support was hell. It was funny that the company was paying me $absurd but viewed it as "sunk cost" so something a $50-100k/yr person could have easily done became also my job description at times. Working for Zappos, at least based on their offices and culture, also appears to be a unique form of hell, but those attracted to the company probably would like it.
jedberg 13y ago
You're exactly the kind of person they are trying to get to leave -- someone who is only in it for the money and doesn't believe in the mission.
- coldtea 13y ago
  In other words, the smart person who is not gonna stand for bullshit, and who is a professional that knows the end goal is creating value, not some BS "mission".
- lsc 13y ago
  Yup, and if you want to play mind games with your employees, and pretend like it's not a monetary relationship, then the feeling is mutual. I provide enough real value that I can get an employer who respects me enough to be honest and up-front. We aren't family. Both of us are going to break off the relationship if we see a better deal. If you want me to stick around because I think the company will be better X years from now? Give me a significant amount of underwater options, and a position where I have a chance to move the share price. However, more relevant to this situation? Who do you think is going to take the cash and leave? Probably the people who can most easily get new jobs. Now, I'm the first to point out that your ability to get a job does not 100% correlate with your competency, but there is certainly some correlation. Your company is going to be dramatically worse off if the people who have other options leave. If you have to let people go? you want to get rid of your bottom performers, not the top performers.
  - cosmie 13y ago
    >> Your company is going to be dramatically worse off if the people who have other options leave. If you have to let people go? you want to get rid of your bottom performers, not the top performers. This is true, IFF your voluntary reduction process is indiscriminant in whom is approved. In the case of the Dell program, you have to "apply" for the voluntary layoff. In January they'll take all the applications and choose whom to let go. If they have no intention of reducing headcount in your group, you won't be accepted. If they do have intentions to reduce headcount in your group, but you're the best worker in the group, there's a strong chance they'll deny your application.
tspiteri 13y ago
Only if you can get another job easily. And I don't think this scheme is meant for those people, those people may very well be excluded from the scheme altogether.
- lsc 13y ago
  >Only if you can get another job easily. Maybe. If you can't get another job, that implies you are getting paid above-market wages. If the company is in trouble and you are getting paid above market wages, how many more months is it going to be before they ask you to leave without a nice severance package?
cbsmith 13y ago
So, if a company were to offer its employees $1 to leave the day before their options vested, you'd say they should take?

rayiner 13y ago

If you believe it's about "the mission" I have a bridge to sell you. When management offers a buyout, it's about to cull the workforce. It's a go-to private equity trick. Silver Lake probably realizes that Dell can do just as much with a lot fewer people, so getting rid of the excess workforce will result in an instant shot in the arm for profits. That said, offering buyouts can be risky. On one hand, they're better for morale than just firing a bunch of people. On the other hand, anybody who has any sense knows that buyouts means that layoffs are imminent, and so the ones who have the most prospects elsewhere (i.e. the people you want to retain) will be the first ones to jump ship.

junto 13y ago

I remember when my share options were worth $52.

alan_cx 13y ago

Why not a wedge of cash to stay? That's what happened in one business I worked in but got bought out like this. We got told things would change, they needed our co-operation, it would mean possibly working a bit harder and getting used to new practices. So, here's a lump sum. BTW, only a very small number took the money and left afterwards. Problem they had was that in the industry, the deal was well known. Apparently interviews for some other firms in the same sector were awkward. "So, Mr Smith, you took the hand out a month ago, but here you are interviewing for us. Please tell us your opinions on loyalty?"

_delirium 13y ago
The company probably just wants to downsize, in which case offering people money to stay would be the wrong incentive. Voluntary severance packages are often offered when a company wants to get rid of staff without overt layoffs. Sometimes followed by layoffs anyway, if not enough people take the offer. The phrasing here makes it sound related to post-merger culture, but that letter is written in Corporate Newspeak, a dialect of English that is sometimes tricky to translate.