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The arguments about the divide in America often misses an important point - personal choice or rather the sum of many personal choices that lead one to be on ei

The arguments about the divide in America often misses an important point - personal choice or rather the sum of many personal choices that lead one to be on either side of the divide. The fact that we have so many people in prison is driven by the fact that people break laws in the first place. Some laws might be unjust, but the vast majority are just. If you commit what society has deemed unwanted, you must be punished. This is the basic concept of social organization. Recently, I went to see a movie "20 blocks" down the street (as the author puts it) not thinking one bit that it might be a bad idea. I won't bore you with details, but in the end, I was assaulted just for asking someone not to speak loudly during the movie... How is this normal? Am I to blame for this anyway, just because I am white and of upper-middle income?! This is the reason I cannot buy in to the fact that capital is to blame for all evils. Personal choice and degradation of moral values is what is the tragedy of the West and the world. In all facets of our society, we have chosen to ignore the basics that we understand to be good. These moral principles have nothing to do with wealth. If we remember these and act on them, the balance will be restored.

hacknat 13y ago
Some laws might be unjust, but the vast majority are just. It doesn't really seem like you're examining this assumption too closely. The vast majority are just? Really, the vast majority or laws are immaterial to criminal behavior. The vast majority of law is definition, e.g. Telecom companies are only allowed to use such-and-such a frequency band, utility companies must implement such-and-such safety measures, banks must have such-and-such leverage ratios. When it comes to criminal laws, though, are the vast majority of them just? Do you really think the application of the law is just in this country? I think very smart men and women have made fantastic arguments disagreeing with the basic assumption you glossed over, don't insult our intelligence by not seriously engaging with that assumption before ripping off some anecdotal tale of being assaulted in da 'hood.
- sologoub 13y ago
  I'm not intending to insult your intelligence. I simply disagree with your sentiment. Having the benefit of knowing exactly what life is like in less fortunate society than US, it's a matter of perspective. Compare the state of law and law enforcement in US, say to Russia, and you will see that by this standard things aren't that bad here. No doubt they can be better, but at least I have some recourse under the law here, whereas bribes and political connections mean everything here. Also, that is no anecdote, but very real personal experience and not in the "hood", but a relatively modest part of Los Angeles.
  - hacknat 13y ago
    I think that if you are a poor brown/black person in this country it might actually feel like Russia.
  - bilbo0s 13y ago
    But your attitude is just the point. There are many issues with your stories, and many points at which they may go different ways. To give a single example, if I understand correctly, people disrespected you at a movie theater for asking them to quiet down. If I may... did you ask them to quiet down in a respectful fashion? Don't answer. Just think about your own behavior towards them and TRY to evaluate it in an honest fashion. You may conclude that you would be better off moving out of that neighborhood. Or maybe being more polite. Or perhaps just going to a different movie theater. But whatever it is... it will probably make society a better place if you make the adjustments. I don't mean to put too fine a point on it.. but we shouldn't take on the $40K a year expense of locking people up because you have a hard time with them at the movie theater. That money is better used elsewhere.
    - yetanotherphd 13y ago
      In other words: * If a minority assaults you, you must be to blame, and don't even try to argue otherwise. * Don't learn from your own experience, learn from respected academics.
      - bilbo0s 13y ago
        Not hardly. The lessons are: * If you assault a minority... don't be surprised if s/he assaults you. (My point is... we only have one side of that story... so we can draw no conclusions as to what happened. Maybe it's not necessary for you, but I would like to know from the other side WHY the minority assaults a person before I draw conclusions. Kind of why I laid out multiple options of what may be necessary depending on what happened.) and * DO learn from your own experiences... but DON'T expect society to take on $40K a year obligations to make your experiences pleasant.
    - sologoub 13y ago

hacknat 13y ago

Some laws might be unjust, but the vast majority are just. It doesn't really seem like you're examining this assumption too closely. The vast majority are just? Really, the vast majority or laws are immaterial to criminal behavior. The vast majority of law is definition, e.g. Telecom companies are only allowed to use such-and-such a frequency band, utility companies must implement such-and-such safety measures, banks must have such-and-such leverage ratios. When it comes to criminal laws, though, are the vast majority of them just? Do you really think the application of the law is just in this country? I think very smart men and women have made fantastic arguments disagreeing with the basic assumption you glossed over, don't insult our intelligence by not seriously engaging with that assumption before ripping off some anecdotal tale of being assaulted in da 'hood.

sologoub 13y ago
I'm not intending to insult your intelligence. I simply disagree with your sentiment. Having the benefit of knowing exactly what life is like in less fortunate society than US, it's a matter of perspective. Compare the state of law and law enforcement in US, say to Russia, and you will see that by this standard things aren't that bad here. No doubt they can be better, but at least I have some recourse under the law here, whereas bribes and political connections mean everything here. Also, that is no anecdote, but very real personal experience and not in the "hood", but a relatively modest part of Los Angeles.
- hacknat 13y ago
  I think that if you are a poor brown/black person in this country it might actually feel like Russia.
- bilbo0s 13y ago
  But your attitude is just the point. There are many issues with your stories, and many points at which they may go different ways. To give a single example, if I understand correctly, people disrespected you at a movie theater for asking them to quiet down. If I may... did you ask them to quiet down in a respectful fashion? Don't answer. Just think about your own behavior towards them and TRY to evaluate it in an honest fashion. You may conclude that you would be better off moving out of that neighborhood. Or maybe being more polite. Or perhaps just going to a different movie theater. But whatever it is... it will probably make society a better place if you make the adjustments. I don't mean to put too fine a point on it.. but we shouldn't take on the $40K a year expense of locking people up because you have a hard time with them at the movie theater. That money is better used elsewhere.
  - yetanotherphd 13y ago
    In other words: * If a minority assaults you, you must be to blame, and don't even try to argue otherwise. * Don't learn from your own experience, learn from respected academics.
    - bilbo0s 13y ago
      Not hardly. The lessons are: * If you assault a minority... don't be surprised if s/he assaults you. (My point is... we only have one side of that story... so we can draw no conclusions as to what happened. Maybe it's not necessary for you, but I would like to know from the other side WHY the minority assaults a person before I draw conclusions. Kind of why I laid out multiple options of what may be necessary depending on what happened.) and * DO learn from your own experiences... but DON'T expect society to take on $40K a year obligations to make your experiences pleasant.
  - sologoub 13y ago