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> The libertarian and anti-government sentiments aren't saying that we shouldn't be all in this together, but that we shouldn't be forced to be all in this toge

by adriand 13y ago

> The libertarian and anti-government sentiments aren't saying that we shouldn't be all in this together, but that we shouldn't be forced to be all in this together. That difference is what the entire argument is about. That's the kind of facile, juvenile argument the OP decries in this article. To make an analogy, I could equally say, "I shouldn't be forced to be in a family. Families are great and everything, but why do I have to have one?" Well guess what, I have one because I'm a human being and got born into one. You're an American (or a Canadian or a Briton or whatever). You are part of a society and part of a nation whether you like it or not. So let's make it work for everyone.

cinquemb 13y ago
> You're an American (or a Canadian or a Briton or whatever). You are part of a society and part of a nation whether you like it or not. So let's make it work for everyone. Regardless of which lines one did not to choose to be drawn around them, not everyone has an affinity for them, and if history is any example of such, blood will be drawn for those to fight for their will to reconstruct such lines to their choosing…
- coldtea 13y ago
  >Regardless of which lines one did not to choose to be drawn around them, not everyone has an affinity for them Yes -- there are always selfish pricks, who think that they should have a say in if they'd have affinity to their family or society or fellow humans. It's like seeing a child drowning and saying, "well, I don't know this kid or feel anything for this, so why should I do anything to help it?" -- instead of just jumping in just cause it's a fellow human.
  - cinquemb 13y ago
    Yes -- we can all pick examples at the extremities that may exemplify how one feels and throw names about in order to convince or deride the fellow human being into a lockstep of some sort. Yet such men (and women), who stand on the pillars of history, who have helped create the social constructs we find ourselves living by to some degree today, were "selfish pricks" to those who apposed them and died in their wake.
thaumasiotes 13y ago
This is kind of a funny analogy, perhaps better than you realized. Families and governments compete directly with each other for power over society. The English-speaking countries are way, way out on the government end of the continuum; here, you don't have to be in a family if it's not to your taste. Compared to the rest of the world, Americans, Canadians, and Britons already have only the most tenuous connection to their families anyway.
- steveklabnik 13y ago
  Fun fact: Engels actually wrote a whole book about this: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/ http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-famil...
eudox 13y ago
>You're an American (or a Canadian or a Briton or whatever). You are part of a society and part of a nation whether you like it or not. So let's make it work for everyone. "{Nature|The State|Society|Some other abstraction} is the only thing we all belong to, so better get used to it."

by adriand 13y ago

cinquemb 13y ago

> You're an American (or a Canadian or a Briton or whatever). You are part of a society and part of a nation whether you like it or not. So let's make it work for everyone. Regardless of which lines one did not to choose to be drawn around them, not everyone has an affinity for them, and if history is any example of such, blood will be drawn for those to fight for their will to reconstruct such lines to their choosing…

coldtea 13y ago
>Regardless of which lines one did not to choose to be drawn around them, not everyone has an affinity for them Yes -- there are always selfish pricks, who think that they should have a say in if they'd have affinity to their family or society or fellow humans. It's like seeing a child drowning and saying, "well, I don't know this kid or feel anything for this, so why should I do anything to help it?" -- instead of just jumping in just cause it's a fellow human.
- cinquemb 13y ago
  Yes -- we can all pick examples at the extremities that may exemplify how one feels and throw names about in order to convince or deride the fellow human being into a lockstep of some sort. Yet such men (and women), who stand on the pillars of history, who have helped create the social constructs we find ourselves living by to some degree today, were "selfish pricks" to those who apposed them and died in their wake.

thaumasiotes 13y ago

This is kind of a funny analogy, perhaps better than you realized. Families and governments compete directly with each other for power over society. The English-speaking countries are way, way out on the government end of the continuum; here, you don't have to be in a family if it's not to your taste. Compared to the rest of the world, Americans, Canadians, and Britons already have only the most tenuous connection to their families anyway.

steveklabnik 13y ago
Fun fact: Engels actually wrote a whole book about this: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/ http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-famil...

eudox 13y ago

>You're an American (or a Canadian or a Briton or whatever). You are part of a society and part of a nation whether you like it or not. So let's make it work for everyone. "{Nature|The State|Society|Some other abstraction} is the only thing we all belong to, so better get used to it."