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This is getting really interesting. Between this, the Nexus 5 and the various Lumia's a $649 iPhone is starting to look very, very expensive. Smartphones at th

This is getting really interesting. Between this, the Nexus 5 and the various Lumia's a $649 iPhone is starting to look very, very expensive. Smartphones at the moment seem to have got 'good enough'.

mpg33 13y ago
macs are also a premium price compared to PC's....not sure how comparably this is
- Macha 13y ago
  And the Mac market share compared to PC market share shows which is far more dominant.
  - lotsofpulp 13y ago
    A sustainable business with larger profit margins is usually better to have than one with smaller profit margins. Also, a business with clients who have deeper pockets is better than a business dealing with those who have less disposable income.
    - ido 13y ago
      Apple vs Amazon models, both have their pros and cons.
      - prodigal_erik 13y ago
        Apple's strategy had them circling the drain for many years, with too little volume to build a decent supply chain and hit sane price points. They all but gave up on making open tools and moved down to crippled appliances, and even then I was honestly surprised they survived.
        eropple 13y ago
        What you call "crippled appliances", other people call "things people want."
    - Touche 13y ago
      Apple didn't become the most valuable company in the world on a strategy of niches though. And they won't stay there if they go that way.
- _delirium 13y ago
  Apple seems to be aiming to fill the cheaper price points with tablets. Their idea seems to be, $1k+ laptops, $300-$900 iPads. Within those price points they're nowadays pretty reasonably priced. There used be a significant "mac tax" versus similarly specced PCs, but a MacBook Air or Pro these days compares pretty reasonably to the stuff Dell is putting out. If you want a dual i5 with 128 GB SSD and 8 hours of battery life, the Macbook Air's $999 price point is within the norm. The main market they aren't competing in is sub-$1000 laptop form factors, like the Chromebooks. That seems to be less an unwillingness to compete on the low end, and more a disagreement over what it will look like: Google is betting on a netbook-esque form factor at ~$400, while Apple is betting on a tablet form factor in that price range.
- JohnTHaller 13y ago
  True, which is why Apple commands a relatively small share of the PC market and why the entire Mac desktop/laptop and OS X business is only about 12% Apple's total revenue (last I checked last year anyways). The Moto G is $179 and is, honestly, quite a bit of phone. Compare that to the iPhone 5c which is $549, over 3 times the price. Macs are about as much of a premium over PCs (comparing entry level hardware costs, not equivalent builds, as that would be a lower multiple). Realistically, Apple is setting themselves up for the same type of market share in the phone business they have in the PC business. Android is at 52.2% of the market and climbing in the US (where consumers are currently insulated from the actual cost of a phone though this is starting to change) and at over 80% and climbing internationally. It's looking like it will be Android in a position analogous to Windows in the smartphone market.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    Macs are a small part of Apple's revenues, but Apple is and has for awhile been pretty much the only company making substantial profits on laptops and PCs. Similarly, pretty much only Samsung makes big profits on Android, and Galaxy S4 is just as expensive as iPhone. They also have the advantage of vertical integration in manufacture. Finally, Google doesn't make any money on Android. Key difference from Microsoft and Windows.
    - kayoone 13y ago
      When i look onto Amazon, the S4 is still substantially cheaper than even the iPhone 5. 460 EUR vs 620 EUR in german amazon currently. iPhone 5S starts at 700 EUR
  - mpg33 13y ago
    Yes, Apple did get an large share of the market simply by being first to the "fully-touch-screen phone market" with the first iPhone. It depends on how Apple views this. Will they start introducing sub $200 (no contract) products? Personally I wouldn't buy a 5C over a 5S....
- glogla 13y ago
  I don't really think so. For iMac, this is pretty much true, you can get computer equivalent to 27" iMac (except for Mac OS and all-in-one construction), for a lot less money than 21" iMac. But with laptops, you would be hard pressed to find something as good or better and at the same time less expensive than rMBP 13. With 15", the prices are about comparable, but looking at our local eshops, for the price of 13", you get thinkpad or elitebook with 1600*900 TN panel and rotary storage. That sucks.
  - kayoone 13y ago
    i am actually not so sure about this. If you compare the recently released Haswell Dell XPS 15 to an 15" rMBP you will find a price difference of EUR 500 (in Germany) in favor of the Dell with very comparable specs. The Dell doesn't have PCIE SSD Storage (it has a mSATA SSD of the same size) but has a higher resolution QHD screen. 13 inch models aren't as easily comparable as the Dells don't offer a QHD display but feature a touchscreen. Also the SSDs seems to max out at 128GB, but still the Dells remain quite a bit cheaper. Thinkpad/Elitebooks are usually lacking in cutting edge hardware in favor of stability and i think the MBP should be compared to premium consumer laptops like the XPS and HP Envy instead of thinkpads/elitebooks. Dont get me wrong, id still favour Macbooks for various reasons, but you still seem to get more for less elsewhere.
mmahemoff 13y ago
Apple used to cover all bases. There was iPod Shuffle, iPod Nano, all the way up to the biggest iPod. So in the early 2000s, people at every level of the MP3 player market could be part of Apple's universe (which led to more PC sales and further MP3 sales and upgrading). They've still not done this with phones, so they've left a giant hole for Android to fill, which in turn makes the platform more attractive to developers.
- krakensden 13y ago
  There are two editions of the 5, so they are probably moving in that direction. That, and older models do a reasonable job of filling the low end niche...
  - JohnTHaller 13y ago
    Not really. The 5c just took the place of the 5. It's the same older hardware and build just with a cheaper to build case. So, instead of continuing to make the older versions of iPhones and marketing them as the less expensive alternative, Apple has switched to having the 5c fulfill that role with the same ~$100 price difference... so the phones on contract in the US start at $99 (5c) instead of $199 (5s) and are discounted appropriately.
- hayksaakian 13y ago
  the problem here, is that they make SO MUCH MONEY that offering a (truely) low end model, or making any drastic changes is a great risk to their bottom line
  - jedc 13y ago
    And remembering the lessons of "The Innovators Dilemma", this strikes me as a potentially dangerous place for Apple to be in. (A company should always try to disrupt their own industry... instead of others doing it for them.)
    - craigyk 13y ago
superuser2 13y ago
iPhones are not intended to be purchased for $649 except by the very impatient (or people who break/lose their uninsured phones). If you wait your 2 years, it's $100 or $200 on-contract. Of course it's different in emerging markets where contracts aren't the norm, but smartphone prices in the US are pretty damn close in terms of 2-year TCO.
- glesica 13y ago
  I, and quite a few people I know (admittedly perhaps not average consumers) refuse to sign contracts partly because the phones are so expensive to replace, and breaking the phone doesn't get you out of the contract. That means you need insurance, which adds to the cost. I would rather fully own my device, have the flexibility to switch carriers, and be able to downgrade my plan if my phone breaks or my needs change.
  - wvenable 13y ago
    The biggest problem with that is most carriers don't give you a discount if you own your own phone. So you can either pay $50 a month and get your handset for $200 or pay $50 and get your handset for $600. Which one makes more financial sense?
    - glesica 13y ago
      Many carriers are starting to give discounts. T-Mobile does already. Also, I can use an MVNO for quite a bit cheaper than a subscription plan, but I need a phone to do that. Most of the MVNOs will sell you a phone, but it will be a either a full-price model, or a terrible piece of crap.
- simbolit 13y ago
  in 'emerging markets' like germany more and more people are getting PAYG sim cards due to the prices being much much cheaper. so much cheaper in fact, that it often makes economic sense to buy a phone unlocked and pair it with PAYG, compared to the on-contract alternative.
- 13y ago
berkut 13y ago
This. I've just bought a Lumia 520 as a play phone / replacement while I send my HTC One back to be repaired (due to it continually rebooting / crashing - I'm otherwise generally very happy with it). I had an iPhone 3GS and 4S as well before the HTC One, so I've tried the three main platforms. Windows Phone is actually very nice for the basics of webbrowsing, sending texts, calling, etc. It has its faults (limited app selection, screen's not amazing, the font hinting is a bit poor), but I'm very impressed with it (and I'm a Linux dev by trade who hasn't touched Windows for many years).
- notdrunkatall 13y ago
  Wow, $70 for that phone? I've been using an old Nokia E71 with a straight talk plan for a couple of years now because I didn't want to spend a few hundred on a phone. Looks like it might be time for an upgrade. How's the browser on it?
  - berkut 13y ago
    Ignoring the font hinting (the font is barely readable when fully zoomed out - in contrast to on iOS and Android, although with the 4S and HTC One I had retina screens, so maybe it's not a fair comparison), the only thing really annoying me with the browser is more a general Windows Phone issue - in text boxes, I haven't worked out how to move the text caret position in the URL - by default it seems to autoselect parts, meaning it's very tedious try to fix incorrectly-typed URLs... I guess the answer is get it right first time... I wish there was a way to make "Open in new link" tabs open in the background like on Android as well, but as far as I remember iOS had that annoyance too.
    - alykhalid 13y ago
      >the only thing really annoying me with the browser is more a general Windows Phone issue - in text boxes, I haven't worked out how to move the text caret position in the URL If you want to place your cursor in the middle of some text you've already written, tap and hold the screen near the text you want to change until a cursor appears, then drag your finger to move the cursor exactly where you want it. If you feel that the default browser is not customizable enough, try UCBrowser[1], it provides an option to open new links in background. [1]http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/uc-browser/6cda5651-56b9-48b0-8771-91dbc188f873 http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/uc-browser/6cda5...

This is getting really interesting. Between this, the Nexus 5 and the various Lumia's a $649 iPhone is starting to look very, very expensive. Smartphones at the moment seem to have got 'good enough'.

mpg33 13y ago

macs are also a premium price compared to PC's....not sure how comparably this is

Macha 13y ago
And the Mac market share compared to PC market share shows which is far more dominant.
- lotsofpulp 13y ago
  A sustainable business with larger profit margins is usually better to have than one with smaller profit margins. Also, a business with clients who have deeper pockets is better than a business dealing with those who have less disposable income.
  - ido 13y ago
    Apple vs Amazon models, both have their pros and cons.
    - prodigal_erik 13y ago
      Apple's strategy had them circling the drain for many years, with too little volume to build a decent supply chain and hit sane price points. They all but gave up on making open tools and moved down to crippled appliances, and even then I was honestly surprised they survived.
      - eropple 13y ago
        What you call "crippled appliances", other people call "things people want."
  - Touche 13y ago
    Apple didn't become the most valuable company in the world on a strategy of niches though. And they won't stay there if they go that way.
_delirium 13y ago
Apple seems to be aiming to fill the cheaper price points with tablets. Their idea seems to be, $1k+ laptops, $300-$900 iPads. Within those price points they're nowadays pretty reasonably priced. There used be a significant "mac tax" versus similarly specced PCs, but a MacBook Air or Pro these days compares pretty reasonably to the stuff Dell is putting out. If you want a dual i5 with 128 GB SSD and 8 hours of battery life, the Macbook Air's $999 price point is within the norm. The main market they aren't competing in is sub-$1000 laptop form factors, like the Chromebooks. That seems to be less an unwillingness to compete on the low end, and more a disagreement over what it will look like: Google is betting on a netbook-esque form factor at ~$400, while Apple is betting on a tablet form factor in that price range.
JohnTHaller 13y ago
True, which is why Apple commands a relatively small share of the PC market and why the entire Mac desktop/laptop and OS X business is only about 12% Apple's total revenue (last I checked last year anyways). The Moto G is $179 and is, honestly, quite a bit of phone. Compare that to the iPhone 5c which is $549, over 3 times the price. Macs are about as much of a premium over PCs (comparing entry level hardware costs, not equivalent builds, as that would be a lower multiple). Realistically, Apple is setting themselves up for the same type of market share in the phone business they have in the PC business. Android is at 52.2% of the market and climbing in the US (where consumers are currently insulated from the actual cost of a phone though this is starting to change) and at over 80% and climbing internationally. It's looking like it will be Android in a position analogous to Windows in the smartphone market.
- rayiner 13y ago
  Macs are a small part of Apple's revenues, but Apple is and has for awhile been pretty much the only company making substantial profits on laptops and PCs. Similarly, pretty much only Samsung makes big profits on Android, and Galaxy S4 is just as expensive as iPhone. They also have the advantage of vertical integration in manufacture. Finally, Google doesn't make any money on Android. Key difference from Microsoft and Windows.
  - kayoone 13y ago
    When i look onto Amazon, the S4 is still substantially cheaper than even the iPhone 5. 460 EUR vs 620 EUR in german amazon currently. iPhone 5S starts at 700 EUR
- mpg33 13y ago
  Yes, Apple did get an large share of the market simply by being first to the "fully-touch-screen phone market" with the first iPhone. It depends on how Apple views this. Will they start introducing sub $200 (no contract) products? Personally I wouldn't buy a 5C over a 5S....
glogla 13y ago
I don't really think so. For iMac, this is pretty much true, you can get computer equivalent to 27" iMac (except for Mac OS and all-in-one construction), for a lot less money than 21" iMac. But with laptops, you would be hard pressed to find something as good or better and at the same time less expensive than rMBP 13. With 15", the prices are about comparable, but looking at our local eshops, for the price of 13", you get thinkpad or elitebook with 1600*900 TN panel and rotary storage. That sucks.
- kayoone 13y ago
  i am actually not so sure about this. If you compare the recently released Haswell Dell XPS 15 to an 15" rMBP you will find a price difference of EUR 500 (in Germany) in favor of the Dell with very comparable specs. The Dell doesn't have PCIE SSD Storage (it has a mSATA SSD of the same size) but has a higher resolution QHD screen. 13 inch models aren't as easily comparable as the Dells don't offer a QHD display but feature a touchscreen. Also the SSDs seems to max out at 128GB, but still the Dells remain quite a bit cheaper. Thinkpad/Elitebooks are usually lacking in cutting edge hardware in favor of stability and i think the MBP should be compared to premium consumer laptops like the XPS and HP Envy instead of thinkpads/elitebooks. Dont get me wrong, id still favour Macbooks for various reasons, but you still seem to get more for less elsewhere.

mmahemoff 13y ago

Apple used to cover all bases. There was iPod Shuffle, iPod Nano, all the way up to the biggest iPod. So in the early 2000s, people at every level of the MP3 player market could be part of Apple's universe (which led to more PC sales and further MP3 sales and upgrading). They've still not done this with phones, so they've left a giant hole for Android to fill, which in turn makes the platform more attractive to developers.

krakensden 13y ago
There are two editions of the 5, so they are probably moving in that direction. That, and older models do a reasonable job of filling the low end niche...
- JohnTHaller 13y ago
  Not really. The 5c just took the place of the 5. It's the same older hardware and build just with a cheaper to build case. So, instead of continuing to make the older versions of iPhones and marketing them as the less expensive alternative, Apple has switched to having the 5c fulfill that role with the same ~$100 price difference... so the phones on contract in the US start at $99 (5c) instead of $199 (5s) and are discounted appropriately.
hayksaakian 13y ago
the problem here, is that they make SO MUCH MONEY that offering a (truely) low end model, or making any drastic changes is a great risk to their bottom line
- jedc 13y ago
  And remembering the lessons of "The Innovators Dilemma", this strikes me as a potentially dangerous place for Apple to be in. (A company should always try to disrupt their own industry... instead of others doing it for them.)
  - craigyk 13y ago

superuser2 13y ago

iPhones are not intended to be purchased for $649 except by the very impatient (or people who break/lose their uninsured phones). If you wait your 2 years, it's $100 or $200 on-contract. Of course it's different in emerging markets where contracts aren't the norm, but smartphone prices in the US are pretty damn close in terms of 2-year TCO.

glesica 13y ago
I, and quite a few people I know (admittedly perhaps not average consumers) refuse to sign contracts partly because the phones are so expensive to replace, and breaking the phone doesn't get you out of the contract. That means you need insurance, which adds to the cost. I would rather fully own my device, have the flexibility to switch carriers, and be able to downgrade my plan if my phone breaks or my needs change.
- wvenable 13y ago
  The biggest problem with that is most carriers don't give you a discount if you own your own phone. So you can either pay $50 a month and get your handset for $200 or pay $50 and get your handset for $600. Which one makes more financial sense?
  - glesica 13y ago
    Many carriers are starting to give discounts. T-Mobile does already. Also, I can use an MVNO for quite a bit cheaper than a subscription plan, but I need a phone to do that. Most of the MVNOs will sell you a phone, but it will be a either a full-price model, or a terrible piece of crap.
simbolit 13y ago
in 'emerging markets' like germany more and more people are getting PAYG sim cards due to the prices being much much cheaper. so much cheaper in fact, that it often makes economic sense to buy a phone unlocked and pair it with PAYG, compared to the on-contract alternative.
13y ago

berkut 13y ago

This. I've just bought a Lumia 520 as a play phone / replacement while I send my HTC One back to be repaired (due to it continually rebooting / crashing - I'm otherwise generally very happy with it). I had an iPhone 3GS and 4S as well before the HTC One, so I've tried the three main platforms. Windows Phone is actually very nice for the basics of webbrowsing, sending texts, calling, etc. It has its faults (limited app selection, screen's not amazing, the font hinting is a bit poor), but I'm very impressed with it (and I'm a Linux dev by trade who hasn't touched Windows for many years).

notdrunkatall 13y ago
Wow, $70 for that phone? I've been using an old Nokia E71 with a straight talk plan for a couple of years now because I didn't want to spend a few hundred on a phone. Looks like it might be time for an upgrade. How's the browser on it?
- berkut 13y ago
  Ignoring the font hinting (the font is barely readable when fully zoomed out - in contrast to on iOS and Android, although with the 4S and HTC One I had retina screens, so maybe it's not a fair comparison), the only thing really annoying me with the browser is more a general Windows Phone issue - in text boxes, I haven't worked out how to move the text caret position in the URL - by default it seems to autoselect parts, meaning it's very tedious try to fix incorrectly-typed URLs... I guess the answer is get it right first time... I wish there was a way to make "Open in new link" tabs open in the background like on Android as well, but as far as I remember iOS had that annoyance too.
  - alykhalid 13y ago
    >the only thing really annoying me with the browser is more a general Windows Phone issue - in text boxes, I haven't worked out how to move the text caret position in the URL If you want to place your cursor in the middle of some text you've already written, tap and hold the screen near the text you want to change until a cursor appears, then drag your finger to move the cursor exactly where you want it. If you feel that the default browser is not customizable enough, try UCBrowser[1], it provides an option to open new links in background. [1]http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/uc-browser/6cda5651-56b9-48b0-8771-91dbc188f873 http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/uc-browser/6cda5...