6 ms·

Ask HN: Senior dev, no degree – which countries may accept me?

• drakaal 13y ago
  It is not the degree, it is the specialization. If I were you I would take 2-3 months and learn everything there is to know about a very specialized subset of tech. When I was at Microsoft I hired a guy out of Russia who was self taught, but knew pretty much everything there was to know about Forward Error Correction in Mpeg Transport Streams. So we go him a work visa. From the work Visa after a time you can convert to a Green Card. Talk with a recruiter, find something they will need lots of that they can't find in the US. Learn everything there is to know, and get sponsored.
• devb0x 13y ago
  Germany in particular caused this question and I am seriously needing to make the move. My English is perfect. Thanks for all the answers
• PythonDeveloper 13y ago
  The best way to get into the US, IMHO, is to contract with a US firm via one of the coder-for-hire sites for a year or so, and then apply to the company and ask them to sponsor you as an H1B visa. Experience is everything, and companies like to hold on to talent as it costs 2x to 3x more to find talent outside than to develop it from within.
• byoung2 13y ago
  It would be helpful to know where you currently have citizenship. That may limit your options more than the lack of degree.
• ysekand 13y ago
  You should look into the following: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/06/technology-experts-fast-track-uk-visas-funding http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/06/technology...
• _3u10 13y ago
  It really depends on where you are, I'm Canadian and in the same boat. If I had a degree I could get a TN1 VISA, in 6 months I'll have enough work exp to qualify anyway (12 years). I could get an H1B but it seems like too much hassle. The UK will apparently accept me, I have to say there's a world of difference between UK and US immigration, anytime I've dealt with US immigration I felt like wanting to do anything another than vacation in the US was criminal. In the UK however they seemed A OK as long as I had a return flight, they were even friendly. Although it didn't pan out as I was extremely jet lagged, sleep deprived and bombed the interview I'd highly recommend talking to Facebook, their people were super accommodating and really went the extra mile to get talent on board. They basically figured out all my VISA options worldwide for me.
  • rmchugh 13y ago
    When I went to the U.S. last, immigration made me feel like a criminal even though it was just for a holiday. I think it's just part of the U.S. immigration experience. Greatest country on earth, don'tcha know.
  • mahyarm 13y ago
    The hiring company will take care of most of the H1-B bullshit & cost for you, so from that perspective that shouldn't be a problem. The US also pays far better than Canada or the UK. Some weird grumpy people at the border that you might deal with for 5 hours a year tops seems a bit out of proportion. Plus SFO is pretty friendly as far as us border people go. They wont treat you as a criminal if you have the H1-B visa already anyway.
    • derefr 13y ago
      > Some weird grumpy people at the border that you might deal with for 5 hours a year tops seems a bit out of proportion. For the TN-1 visa, these "weird grumpy people" may, during any one of those visits, choose to deny you re-entry, completely at their whim. And there's nothing you can do about it if they do.
      • 13y ago
• jrockway 13y ago
  I believe Hong Kong has a point system that counts work experience and degrees equally: http://www.immd.gov.hk/en/services/hk-visas/quality-migrant-admission/points-based-tests.html http://www.immd.gov.hk/en/services/hk-visas/quality-migrant-... If you're under 40 and have 10 years of experience, there's your 80 points. (You also get 10 points for English. What a deal.)
• jeanlucas 13y ago
  With no doubt, Brazil.
  • andrewcooke 13y ago
    i am unsure of details (a long time since i came here), but i think also chile. i am unsure because i do have a degree (a phd) and did provide it at some point. but i entered on a tourist visa, got a job offer and then applied for change of status using that. as far as i remember they were happy to take me provided i would work and pay taxes. if you speak spanish most of chile's laws seem to be online, so you can probably dig up more info yourself. since you are with a family, things may be more complex. public education here is not very good (i understand; i don't have children, but it is one of the issues in the current elections). there are private schools, but that implies you have to earn more. but if you can earn a decent wage then life here is pretty good - friendly people, relatively little crime, a more relaxed pace of life, great weather, good, low priced, fresh food (but imported goods are more expensive), very stable politics (for s america). downsides are large variations in wealth, and relatively little in the way of public services, compared to w europe (i am english) and a certain lack of experience with foreigners (which if you are dark skinned can be quite obvious, and often rather naive, racism). also, hours are long in many chilean companies (how long you are at your desk can seem more important than what you do). i don't regret coming here, at all, but i am (relatively) well off (and, i realise i haven't said anywhere above, live with - but am not married to - a chilean, which makes life significantly easier when first finding your way around).
• pontifexa 13y ago
  Canada has a points system. You'll miss out on a lot of points for not having any higher education, but you can recoup some of that if your spouse matches the template: http://www.workpermit.com/canada/points_calculator.htm http://www.workpermit.com/canada/points_calculator.htm
  • 3pt14159 13y ago
    Also note about Canada: The startup visa lets you have only one year of University and still qualify.
• zebra 13y ago
  You are maybe from Bulgaria or Romania, right?
  • ronaldx 13y ago
    Bulgarians and Romanians have the freedom to work and reside in many EU countries already, and all of them from January 1st.
• dobbsbob 13y ago
  work remotely anywhere you want. live in a country with low cost of living and use online portfolio to get work
  • jimhefferon 13y ago
    You missed this. > I have a family and want to immigrate for their sake. I believe OP meant emigrate
    • stefan_kendall 13y ago
      I believe OP could mean emigrate alone or immigrate with an implied "to a better place than where he is." You emigrate from, and he didn't mention where he was from. Or the difference doesn't matter, because any large group of English speaking people will only use the word "immigrate" exclusively.
• ryanSrich 13y ago
  I'm confused about why this is still a common question. I haven't seen a job posting in ages that doesn't say "CS degree or equivelent experience". Of course if you want to do research at Google you'll need a PHD. However 99% of dev positions don't require even a BS.
  • EdwardDiego 13y ago
    If you want an easy entry into Germany as skilled worker, for example, you need to hold a 4 year degree in an appropriate field.
  • yen223 13y ago
    It's not just about job requirements. A lot of countries require, at a minimum, a Bachelor's degree in order to get a work permit.
    • derefr 13y ago
      Including, indeed, the USA, if you want to come in as a programmer.
    • ryanSrich 13y ago
      I was not aware of this. I assume this is only for folks without citizenship for the country they seek to work in?
      • TheCoelacanth 13y ago
        Yes, I've never heard of any country that makes you get a work permit if you are a citizen.
  • munimkazia 13y ago
    This isn't about companies accepting you without a degree. Most countries have regulations which don't let you get a work permit without a degree. In fact, this is the one only regret I have from dropping out of college.
• dashdot 13y ago
  In Switzerland, we have the dual education system [1]. This means highschool students usually choose a profession while they're still in school and go for an apprenticeship after graduation. An apprenticeship in ICT-professions takes 4 years and when finished successfully they receive the "Federal Certificate of Competence". There is a program called "Informa" [2] which validates the knowledge of experienced craftsmen and gives them a chance to receive the same kind of degree like apprentice graduates. Which also makes them eligible to further education paths, like higher professional schools (to get a diploma if you like). If you want to move to Switzerland, you don't have to worry about the language. Many IT-companies here are multi cultural and speak both German and English. We have a high quality of life here, the goverment is friendly and our laws favours employees. I work for a small but successful company in Zurich. We'll move to a bigger office in January 2014 and need skilled developers to fill it :) We mainly create web applications and other cloud solutions, but also windows apps and banking software. We primarily use C#. Oh... and we don't care about certificates and degrees. We need skill, not paper. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to contact me - dashdot at dashdot dot ch. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_education_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_education_system [2] http://www.informa.modellf.ch/index.html http://www.informa.modellf.ch/index.html
  • kafkaesque 13y ago
    Is the job market for entry-level web developers with no CS/BS degree pretty poor like in th US and Canada? I'm Canadian and hold a BA. I've just started doing web development and I'm interested in taking advantage of my visa options.
    • dashdot 13y ago
      At the moment the demand here for developers is clearly higher than the supply. However, mainly CS/BS are demanded. And if you're not experienced or you don't want to make an apprenticeship, the market gets very thin.
• Nursie 13y ago
  It's worth inveatigating australia. You may not get as many points without a degree, but you may make the cut. I believe to get rated as a software dev you need either a degree amd four years experience, or no degree plus 7. It is not a simple or quick process to get PR in aus though, took me 18 months.
  • ajtaylor 13y ago
    I've been in Australia for over 2 years, coming in under the 457 program. No degree either, and it didn't seem to be a problem. Getting PR through a 457 is pretty straightforward, though it will take 2 years and is more expensive now than it used to be. The upside is there's no skills test going this route.
    • Nursie 13y ago
      Does require a job though, and you need to keep employed as if you're out of work for a month you have to leave. I went the 157 route, took longer but you're much safer.
      • ajtaylor 13y ago
        I have the luxury of having both of things. At the time, I had neither the money nor the time to deal with getting a 157 visa. Guess I've been lucky so far.
• mcv 13y ago
  I've never considered that having a degree might be an issue for immigration. As far as I know, to work in Netherland to need you need either an income above a certain threshold, or the hiring company needs to prove they can't find someone with your skills locally.
• richo 13y ago
  In the US 3 years of work experience is good for 1 year of "uni". So 12 years industry experience is a 4 year bachelors degree for immigration purposes.
• devb0x 13y ago
  apologies on the word immigrate. I would like to emigrate to another country.
  • munimkazia 13y ago
    You immigrate to another country and emigrate from your country. You were actually right the first time, but those two words are often used interchangeably, so it's no big deal. Anyway, I am a college dropout, and I am facing the exact same issue as you. Unfortunately, I just have four years of experience, which is too less for a non-graduate to get a work permit in most countries. I was applying for remote jobs for the past few weeks without too much luck. It is really hard for an Indian with 4 years of experience, and without any solid experience in Ruby/Python/Javascript-MVC (those seem to be the most popular skills in the market). I just got another job in another city in India, which pays a little more, but it is more than what I have, so I have decided to move for now, and will probably re-look my remote work/immigration plans after some years.
• droope 13y ago
  NZ will accept you if you find a job and/or can prove your experience: http://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/new-zealand-visa/work-visa/skilled-migrant-visas http://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/new-zealand-visa/work-visa/...
• jzzskijj 13y ago
  Japan accepted me with 10 years of working experience and no degree (studies 98% done, no intention to finish). The company that was hiring me applied for my engineer's working visa. I got immediately the three year working visa. I didn't have JLPT (Japanese-Language Proficiency Test) certificate either. Apartment, moving (suitcase + backbag), traveling & the rest was handled by me. When pulling from the right strings and being very determined gets you far.
  • devb0x 13y ago
    Do you speak conversational japanese? Are you coping with the language?
    • jzzskijj 13y ago
      When I joined I had completed a few courses in open university. It was a start, but would have been much easier, if my level was higher.
• bjeanes 13y ago
  Speaking as someone on a work visa in the US, I can tell you that their requirement is generally 12 years of experience in the field, with each year of higher education (in that field) counting for 3 years. So a 4-year degree works, as does 2 years towards a degree and 6 years professional experience. With a decade or more of experience, you might just qualify for something like an H1-B and apply for permanent residency while there. Of course, perhaps you are already in the US and wanting to leave for elsewhere...