7 ms·

He's spot on. We Americans focus so very very often on how we disagree rather than how we agree. If you look at both parties, they broadly agree on so many thi

by Aloha 13y ago

He's spot on. We Americans focus so very very often on how we disagree rather than how we agree. If you look at both parties, they broadly agree on so many things. Instead we focus on unimportant social issues, shaving a couple percent off government spending, and so on. The educational system we have now is largely a scam, it promises that if you spend tens of thousands (or more) dollars on a 4 year degree, you'd have a good job waiting on the other side, and its largely BS. We need vocational training, we need training for non white collar career options, and no one is really working on it. I make a salary of that of a skilled professional - with no formal education beyond high school - it's been a long fight to get here though, perhaps it could have been easier otherwise. The other problem with the current college education program is a lack of correlation between cost and outcome, it's something that needs to be looked into. He also hits on a point - the government doesnt create jobs, so it doesnt matter what congress does, or what the president does, its the job of the government to create a stable environment (regulatory and otherwise) so the economy can go and create jobs. I believe our government is largely failing at this. On to the skills gap - I disagree with him on one point, companies are largely unwilling to train - there are jobs for which I'm broadly qualified for, but can't get because I'm missing one specialized skill or another for. If companies were willing to train, they would be able to fill most of those unfilled jobs.

mgkimsal 13y ago
re: training - are your skills white collar or blue collar? He seems to be talking about physical labor jobs where employers are willing to train. I don't see that much on the IT side of employment, for example.
drig 13y ago
I kind of choked on his message of tolerance. We says we should stop talking about how we disagree, then he goes on a tirade against all the lazy, spoiled, stupid people. "We shouldn't disagree on party, but, if you don't agree with me and the GOP, you're a stupid, lazy slob!" He writes very well, but he's still spouting right-wing, pseudo-libertarian nonsense.
- bittercynic 13y ago
  The pseudo-libertarian nonsense is unpleasant for me, too, but I see great value in cheer leading for blue collar work. I don't know of anyone else saying "Blue collar work is an honorable thing to do, and you're a fool to judge someone for doing it." At least no one with as high a profile as MR.
  - eshvk 13y ago
    Exactly. One thing that always gets me annoyed about immigration debates is about how there exist so many jobs that Americans are "unwilling to do". Why? Why is there a stigma against certain jobs? If it is a question of a living wage, surely, those immigrants who are taking up those jobs are making a "living" with those wages.
    - Aloha 13y ago
      Exactly, the question I ask when we talk about sending people back to wherever is "Who's going to pick my lettuce?" Americans don't want these jobs.
      - krakensden 13y ago
        Fun story- lettuce picking used to be relatively high skilled and high paying, and the lettuce pickers were the backbone of Cesar Chavez's unionizing. This made them expensive enough that it was worth automating their jobs away. Today, a guy with an extremely fancy tractor does it.
    - wyclif 13y ago
      One reason why is because Americans are more atomised culturally than people from, say, Mexico or Guatamala. Americans believe that you should live independently after you graduate from HS (or else go to college) and don't generally want to live in a home with multiple families or even the same family consisting of multiple generations under a single roof.
      - 13y ago
kevando 13y ago
Mike Rowe is the bomb. He also has an a classic TED talk http://www.ted.com/talks/mike_rowe_celebrates_dirty_jobs.html http://www.ted.com/talks/mike_rowe_celebrates_dirty_jobs.htm...
- conjecTech 13y ago
  Thank you for posting that. He was able to put into words many of the things I had felt for years, but never spent the time to fully quantify.
eshvk 13y ago
> The educational system we have now is largely a scam, it promises that if you spend tens of thousands (or more) dollars on a 4 year degree, you'd have a good job waiting on the other side, and its largely BS. So I didn't grow up in the United States so I am not aware of what high school counsellors teach kids, but are there people really selling the idea that if you go to Podunk university and study Asian comparative literature, you will end up with a good job? The other thing that surprises me about blanket statements like this is why is personal responsibility missing? Especially in a country with such vast free flow of information? I am not knocking on the idea of going to college learn in a structured way anything you like. However, surely complaining you can't get a job at the end because the market can hire only so many English majors or Philosophy majors is rather silly?
- Aloha 13y ago
  Largely yes. It's the message I was given in High School - I graduated in 2001. We we're also expected to know what we wanted to do (ideally) for the rest of our lives.
- crazy1van 13y ago
  > but are there people really selling the idea that if you go to Podunk university and study Asian comparative literature, you will end up with a good job? Unfortunately, yes.
- aeturnum 13y ago
  >if you go to Podunk university and study Asian comparative literature, you will end up with a good job? This appears to be just my experience, but absolutely not. I graduated high school in 2004 and had a very strong sense of choosing between more marketable majors and majors that are less marketable but may be more personally satisfying. Everyone that I talked to: teachers, guidance staff, parents, and friends all urged me to consider (as one of many factors) what career a particular degree might lead to. I ended up getting a major in a field with jobs (CS) and a minor in an area with fewer job prospects (religious studies). It's also worth pointing out that even degrees that are generally considered dead ends can work out quite well if you plan correctly. My friend who went into history is working on becoming a librarian (using an apprentice-like process) and his SO has been making a living doing freelance editing for a few years now. They both figured out paths that worked for them in a relatively weak jobs market.
eli_gottlieb 13y ago
>the government doesnt create jobs This is not even wrong. Of course the government itself employs people. It has work that needs doing. The question is what roles you assign to the government and how much labor they require, and of what kinds.

by Aloha 13y ago

mgkimsal 13y ago

re: training - are your skills white collar or blue collar? He seems to be talking about physical labor jobs where employers are willing to train. I don't see that much on the IT side of employment, for example.

drig 13y ago

I kind of choked on his message of tolerance. We says we should stop talking about how we disagree, then he goes on a tirade against all the lazy, spoiled, stupid people. "We shouldn't disagree on party, but, if you don't agree with me and the GOP, you're a stupid, lazy slob!" He writes very well, but he's still spouting right-wing, pseudo-libertarian nonsense.

bittercynic 13y ago
The pseudo-libertarian nonsense is unpleasant for me, too, but I see great value in cheer leading for blue collar work. I don't know of anyone else saying "Blue collar work is an honorable thing to do, and you're a fool to judge someone for doing it." At least no one with as high a profile as MR.
- eshvk 13y ago
  Exactly. One thing that always gets me annoyed about immigration debates is about how there exist so many jobs that Americans are "unwilling to do". Why? Why is there a stigma against certain jobs? If it is a question of a living wage, surely, those immigrants who are taking up those jobs are making a "living" with those wages.
  - Aloha 13y ago
    Exactly, the question I ask when we talk about sending people back to wherever is "Who's going to pick my lettuce?" Americans don't want these jobs.
    - krakensden 13y ago
      Fun story- lettuce picking used to be relatively high skilled and high paying, and the lettuce pickers were the backbone of Cesar Chavez's unionizing. This made them expensive enough that it was worth automating their jobs away. Today, a guy with an extremely fancy tractor does it.
  - wyclif 13y ago
    One reason why is because Americans are more atomised culturally than people from, say, Mexico or Guatamala. Americans believe that you should live independently after you graduate from HS (or else go to college) and don't generally want to live in a home with multiple families or even the same family consisting of multiple generations under a single roof.
    - 13y ago

kevando 13y ago

Mike Rowe is the bomb. He also has an a classic TED talk http://www.ted.com/talks/mike_rowe_celebrates_dirty_jobs.html http://www.ted.com/talks/mike_rowe_celebrates_dirty_jobs.htm...

conjecTech 13y ago
Thank you for posting that. He was able to put into words many of the things I had felt for years, but never spent the time to fully quantify.

eshvk 13y ago

> The educational system we have now is largely a scam, it promises that if you spend tens of thousands (or more) dollars on a 4 year degree, you'd have a good job waiting on the other side, and its largely BS. So I didn't grow up in the United States so I am not aware of what high school counsellors teach kids, but are there people really selling the idea that if you go to Podunk university and study Asian comparative literature, you will end up with a good job? The other thing that surprises me about blanket statements like this is why is personal responsibility missing? Especially in a country with such vast free flow of information? I am not knocking on the idea of going to college learn in a structured way anything you like. However, surely complaining you can't get a job at the end because the market can hire only so many English majors or Philosophy majors is rather silly?

Aloha 13y ago
Largely yes. It's the message I was given in High School - I graduated in 2001. We we're also expected to know what we wanted to do (ideally) for the rest of our lives.
crazy1van 13y ago
> but are there people really selling the idea that if you go to Podunk university and study Asian comparative literature, you will end up with a good job? Unfortunately, yes.
aeturnum 13y ago
>if you go to Podunk university and study Asian comparative literature, you will end up with a good job? This appears to be just my experience, but absolutely not. I graduated high school in 2004 and had a very strong sense of choosing between more marketable majors and majors that are less marketable but may be more personally satisfying. Everyone that I talked to: teachers, guidance staff, parents, and friends all urged me to consider (as one of many factors) what career a particular degree might lead to. I ended up getting a major in a field with jobs (CS) and a minor in an area with fewer job prospects (religious studies). It's also worth pointing out that even degrees that are generally considered dead ends can work out quite well if you plan correctly. My friend who went into history is working on becoming a librarian (using an apprentice-like process) and his SO has been making a living doing freelance editing for a few years now. They both figured out paths that worked for them in a relatively weak jobs market.

eli_gottlieb 13y ago

>the government doesnt create jobs This is not even wrong. Of course the government itself employs people. It has work that needs doing. The question is what roles you assign to the government and how much labor they require, and of what kinds.