3 ms·

The Pros and Cons of Password Masking (follow-up from Schneier)

18 points by gthank 17y ago

pj 17y ago
I appreciate the thinking outside the box on the security issue, but I'm really surprised anyone would even think for a second that it's a good idea not to hide passwords from those looking over your shoulder. Maybe an option to "show password as you type" would be okay, but leave it unchecked by default.
- Bjoern 17y ago
  "Show password as you type?" I think that would be a bad idea. User normally go the way of least resistance. If you allow this in the next iteration of the software the default would be checked because of too many complaints etc.
ErrantX 17y ago
Where to begin :) Last time I pointed out that Nielson was out of his comfort zone with security. This time, well, damn :P have to pick it apart much more intelligently. > I believe that shoulder surfing isn't nearly the problem it's made out to be I dont agree with the the points one and three that he makes related to this. Firstly yes people do use machines in private: but define private. I am sat at a "private" machine right now at home. But my family could walk in at any moment (it sucks, tip 101: never move home after university, it's cheap for a reason :P) and see an important password. Now I trust them implicitly but a Facebook password is just too tempting for my brother :D And if my friends come over - I could well need passwords then, that is more of a risk. Plus of course many many people don't use computers in this much privacy (i.e. my own office). I check mail at work for example. People use cyber cafes all the time. Secondly his third point is wrong I think. Most people type slow enough for easy reading of what's on screen. Another example: many people I know (normal people, not tech literates) will stop typing, find the mouse and click "login". He talks about a non-alphanumeric string: Im err not sure what that means. But anyway the human brain is usually quite quick at recalling visual scenes in the short term. Especially if casually noticed. Quite long passwords could be easily remembered for a few minutes after they are gone. He also asserts that unmasking passwords will encourage people to choose something longer and more secure. I'd like to see a study to prove that because it is a BIG statement. Besides Schneier should know that any good security system should make a persons password choice as immaterial as possible! I honestly take the opposite view - that people will just use passwords like they usually do (a memorable word and some numbers [and only the latter if forced]). Asserting that clear-text might encourage them to use capitals in their password doesn't make much sense to me. Finally one huge issue he doesn't really address is expectation. people expect passwords to be obscured. It's how they know it's a password and it gives them silent assurance of the security of the site. And another important point that got wholly overlooked: if we go with some passwords hidden some not that is a BIG risk. People usually use the same or similar passwords for all their services. So if "mysupersecretsite" hides the password but "myotherneatsite" doesn't then it is a big break in the security chain. Now I am not at the core disagreeing with what he has to say about masking. HOWEVER I do think the suggestion that it is the choice of the site is wrong. In an ideal world the site should advise the browser - and the browser should override it if told to by the user. But currently only one or the other is really possible - and in such a scenario the browser should win. Simply because on an issue like this it should be user choice, not site admin choice :) That said nice to see Schneier weighing in on the issue: I still think he's giving far too much value to some minor benefits/points but... :)
chollida1 17y ago
I like the compromise that the iPhone has made in this regard. The iPhone will show the last letter that you typed while masking out the previous characters, so only one letter is visible at a time. This way I get some confirmation that my password is correctly typed without giving away the farm.
ryanwaggoner 17y ago
The real problem I see is that the majority of users would freak out if their password wasn't masked, as if it's somehow an implication of lax security overall. Users have been trained for the last twenty years to expect that when they type in a password, it'll be masked. Even me: I'm a web developer and if I hit a website where the password was unmasked, I would just assume they had no idea what they were doing.
mhb 17y ago
Why does Windows make you type the WEP key twice? That's always annoyed me.
- buugs 17y ago
  vista doesn't, was probably a weird leftover little used feature from before wireless was widespread and popular on xp.
- Bjoern 17y ago
  Please don't use WEP anymore. WEP is totally broken and with 5000-10000 packets you can easily guess the used keys. Don't do it. Don't use WEP.
TweedHeads 17y ago
A checkbox for mask/unmask will suffice, masked by default. Fact: there is a lot people in the world that in the comfort of privacy would like to see what is being typed. Solution: give them the option to decide. Everybody else can have their password masked anytime, no compromise.

18 points by gthank 17y ago

pj 17y ago

I appreciate the thinking outside the box on the security issue, but I'm really surprised anyone would even think for a second that it's a good idea not to hide passwords from those looking over your shoulder. Maybe an option to "show password as you type" would be okay, but leave it unchecked by default.

Bjoern 17y ago
"Show password as you type?" I think that would be a bad idea. User normally go the way of least resistance. If you allow this in the next iteration of the software the default would be checked because of too many complaints etc.

ErrantX 17y ago

Where to begin :) Last time I pointed out that Nielson was out of his comfort zone with security. This time, well, damn :P have to pick it apart much more intelligently. > I believe that shoulder surfing isn't nearly the problem it's made out to be I dont agree with the the points one and three that he makes related to this. Firstly yes people do use machines in private: but define private. I am sat at a "private" machine right now at home. But my family could walk in at any moment (it sucks, tip 101: never move home after university, it's cheap for a reason :P) and see an important password. Now I trust them implicitly but a Facebook password is just too tempting for my brother :D And if my friends come over - I could well need passwords then, that is more of a risk. Plus of course many many people don't use computers in this much privacy (i.e. my own office). I check mail at work for example. People use cyber cafes all the time. Secondly his third point is wrong I think. Most people type slow enough for easy reading of what's on screen. Another example: many people I know (normal people, not tech literates) will stop typing, find the mouse and click "login". He talks about a non-alphanumeric string: Im err not sure what that means. But anyway the human brain is usually quite quick at recalling visual scenes in the short term. Especially if casually noticed. Quite long passwords could be easily remembered for a few minutes after they are gone. He also asserts that unmasking passwords will encourage people to choose something longer and more secure. I'd like to see a study to prove that because it is a BIG statement. Besides Schneier should know that any good security system should make a persons password choice as immaterial as possible! I honestly take the opposite view - that people will just use passwords like they usually do (a memorable word and some numbers [and only the latter if forced]). Asserting that clear-text might encourage them to use capitals in their password doesn't make much sense to me. Finally one huge issue he doesn't really address is expectation. people expect passwords to be obscured. It's how they know it's a password and it gives them silent assurance of the security of the site. And another important point that got wholly overlooked: if we go with some passwords hidden some not that is a BIG risk. People usually use the same or similar passwords for all their services. So if "mysupersecretsite" hides the password but "myotherneatsite" doesn't then it is a big break in the security chain. Now I am not at the core disagreeing with what he has to say about masking. HOWEVER I do think the suggestion that it is the choice of the site is wrong. In an ideal world the site should advise the browser - and the browser should override it if told to by the user. But currently only one or the other is really possible - and in such a scenario the browser should win. Simply because on an issue like this it should be user choice, not site admin choice :) That said nice to see Schneier weighing in on the issue: I still think he's giving far too much value to some minor benefits/points but... :)

chollida1 17y ago

I like the compromise that the iPhone has made in this regard. The iPhone will show the last letter that you typed while masking out the previous characters, so only one letter is visible at a time. This way I get some confirmation that my password is correctly typed without giving away the farm.

ryanwaggoner 17y ago

The real problem I see is that the majority of users would freak out if their password wasn't masked, as if it's somehow an implication of lax security overall. Users have been trained for the last twenty years to expect that when they type in a password, it'll be masked. Even me: I'm a web developer and if I hit a website where the password was unmasked, I would just assume they had no idea what they were doing.

mhb 17y ago

Why does Windows make you type the WEP key twice? That's always annoyed me.

buugs 17y ago
vista doesn't, was probably a weird leftover little used feature from before wireless was widespread and popular on xp.
Bjoern 17y ago
Please don't use WEP anymore. WEP is totally broken and with 5000-10000 packets you can easily guess the used keys. Don't do it. Don't use WEP.

TweedHeads 17y ago

A checkbox for mask/unmask will suffice, masked by default. Fact: there is a lot people in the world that in the comfort of privacy would like to see what is being typed. Solution: give them the option to decide. Everybody else can have their password masked anytime, no compromise.