> what is it that would make us do things, what is capable of driving and changing society? The same thing that it has always been. There is nothing new here.

> what is it that would make us do things, what is capable of driving and changing society? The same thing that it has always been. There is nothing new here. If you look at the populist changes to society throughout history, they are fixing problems that are literally unimaginable to modern western sensibilities. For example, the average age upon death of a working class Londoner in the 1780s was 19. [0] Can we even imagine that? People, in huge numbers, dropping off at 19? So that's how we got labor laws. Consider the civil rights movement. It's tempting to blur this with today's racial "tensions", but back then there were cities that would post signs threatening to shoot blacks on sight. This was common enough that there's probably one within an hour's drive of where you are right now [1]. In 1932, the year that the Nazis came to power, German unemployment was over 30% [2]. That is basically unimaginable for most countries today, and those that are in this ballpark have exactly the sort of unrest (e.g. Greece, Spain) that probably leads to social change. It's certainly way different than anything you see in the US. The thing is, NSA spying or whatever don't really rate a mention next to any of these. Sure, it is a violation of your rights but people don't rise up for "on paper" sorts of causes. It is easy for HN and the educated leisure class to paint everybody as "apathetic" or whatever. But out in the real world, 58% of Americans spend at least one year below the poverty line [3]. People aren't worrying about the Orwellian society because they're worrying instead about how to pay for Christmas presents for the kids. If you really want the masses to care about whatever HN's issue of the day is, the first step is to figure out how to get the masses into the educated leisure class so that they have time to care. [0] https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2001/02/orph-f20.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2001/02/orph-f20.html [1] http://sundown.afro.illinois.edu/content.php?file=sundowntowns-whitemap.html http://sundown.afro.illinois.edu/content.php?file=sundowntow... [2] http://www.theholocaustexplained.org/ks3/the-nazi-rise-to-power/economic-issues/effects-of-the-crash/#.UqLdA5GTZXk http://www.theholocaustexplained.org/ks3/the-nazi-rise-to-po... [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States