5 ms·

currently, sending money over the internet without getting charged fees is non-trivial. with the number of players in the payment space, i don't expect that to

currently, sending money over the internet without getting charged fees is non-trivial. with the number of players in the payment space, i don't expect that to be the case for very much longer, and i don't think it will be bitcoin that solves this problem.

marcell 13y ago
Curious--how/who will solve this problem?
- alwillis 13y ago
  This is exactly what Ripple is attempting to solve, acting as a open, global payment network where transactions are nearly free and you can use any currency (including bitcoin) you want. More at https://ripple.com/about-ripple/ https://ripple.com/about-ripple/.
  - goldenkey 13y ago
    Ripple is a petty scam. Please don't advertise that horse dung to HN, we are smarter than that. Ripple generated 10 billion coins, they call them XRP. Of course this amount and even XRP aren't mentioned on that page you linked, an obvious bait. Ripple started giving away millions to generate buzz and use, they've yet to even give away 10% though, and the idea is to create enough value that they can eventually dump all their "genesis" currency and reap the rewards. They recently started giving away a few thousand a day with their ComputingForGood campaign, a pittance to create buzz for their scamware. Mastercoin's done the same thing with no real benefits over Bitcoin itself. Seriously getting tired of these fiat fiascos. I guess creating derivative cryptocurrencies is the new version of the classic pyramid scheme. Some people call Bitcoin a pyramid scheme because of the speculative bubble, fair enough. But these currencies, Ripple and Mastercoin, are true pyramid schemes. Founders plan to get mega-rich based on the illicit adoption of their scamware.
    - alwillis 13y ago
      I already wrote my fact checking piece today on Ripple today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6867324 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6867324. But let me quickly say: * there's no mining in Ripple, so Ripple isn't pre-minded and there's no "genesis" currency * they created 100 billion XRP, not 10 billion as you wrote * they're committed to give away 55 billion XRP to non-profits, users and business partners for the foreseeable future: https://ripple.com/ripple_primer.pdf https://ripple.com/ripple_primer.pdf * XRP certainly isn't derivative of Bitcoin, but the original Ripple system that this is partially based on started in 2004: http://archive.ripple-project.org/Main/HomePage http://archive.ripple-project.org/Main/HomePage * Apparently you don't actually know what a pyramid scheme is or how one works, otherwise you would know that Ripple isn't one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme. * It's also not a Ponzi Scheme, incase you wanted to go there next: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme What Ripple is: a company, an approach and a currency you don't like and you clearly have an agenda to spread misinformation about it for reasons that are not clear. I have no affiliation with Ripple Labs, other than being impressed with their approach of addressing our archaic, fragmented payment system that works almost exactly the same as it did 20 years ago. I also have received XRP in a couple of giveaways. Don't get me wrong—I think Bitcoin is an incredible technology that changed the way we think about money, in ways we're just starting to grok. What Ripple enables—being able to pay anyone anywhere anytime with whatever currency you wish to use for essentially for free--is the killer app right now. This is what I mean by essentially free: I paid 0.000025 XRP to exchange USD for XRP: https://ripple.com/graph/#2EF43881B82AE8FBA31A2C3272E61CBC2EEDFF3F61F248FF16626BE99D6F81CF https://ripple.com/graph/#2EF43881B82AE8FBA31A2C3272E61CBC2E...). That's $0.00075 USD. :: drops the mic ::
      - goldenkey 13y ago
        * they're committed to give away 55 billion XRP to non-profits, users and business partners for the foreseeable future: https://ripple.com/ripple_primer.pdf https://ripple.com/ripple_primer.pdf 'Committed' Heh. I guess Ripple is a religion, because you've got to have ulterior motives or faith in demons.. Enough said. It's a friggin' scam. Enjoy that free XRP that OpenCoin started you off with, like a baby nursing on a milk bag.
- 21echoes 13y ago
  main ones that come to mind: clinkle, dwolla, venmo. but the particular company doesn't matter so much as the clear market trend: fees are in a race-to-the-bottom mode right now, and within 10 years i fully expect them to be effectively 0, if not actually 0.
ashray 13y ago
Unfortunately the barrier to this has been counterparty risk management. The players in the payment space are limited by their contracts with Visa/Mastercard/etc. and therefore have to manage risk accordingly. This is what increases the fees. (chargebacks almost always honored, etc. etc.) Paypal offers micropayments and their rates are by far the most competitive. You know what happens ? I get paid $2 per subscription and Paypal pays me $1.83. That's an 8.5% commission! It's the best rate in the industry! (right now..) It's just that the more middle men you add, the more fees you're going to need. The current financial system is a truckload of middlemen and yes, they do have their utility and run immensely large networks (visa/mastercard/etc.). The only way to lower fees is to cut them out, whether that's going to be bitcoin or someone else is anyone's guess. But bitcoin is definitely a viable prototype.

marcell 13y ago

Curious--how/who will solve this problem?

alwillis 13y ago
This is exactly what Ripple is attempting to solve, acting as a open, global payment network where transactions are nearly free and you can use any currency (including bitcoin) you want. More at https://ripple.com/about-ripple/ https://ripple.com/about-ripple/.
- goldenkey 13y ago
  Ripple is a petty scam. Please don't advertise that horse dung to HN, we are smarter than that. Ripple generated 10 billion coins, they call them XRP. Of course this amount and even XRP aren't mentioned on that page you linked, an obvious bait. Ripple started giving away millions to generate buzz and use, they've yet to even give away 10% though, and the idea is to create enough value that they can eventually dump all their "genesis" currency and reap the rewards. They recently started giving away a few thousand a day with their ComputingForGood campaign, a pittance to create buzz for their scamware. Mastercoin's done the same thing with no real benefits over Bitcoin itself. Seriously getting tired of these fiat fiascos. I guess creating derivative cryptocurrencies is the new version of the classic pyramid scheme. Some people call Bitcoin a pyramid scheme because of the speculative bubble, fair enough. But these currencies, Ripple and Mastercoin, are true pyramid schemes. Founders plan to get mega-rich based on the illicit adoption of their scamware.
  - alwillis 13y ago
    I already wrote my fact checking piece today on Ripple today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6867324 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6867324. But let me quickly say: * there's no mining in Ripple, so Ripple isn't pre-minded and there's no "genesis" currency * they created 100 billion XRP, not 10 billion as you wrote * they're committed to give away 55 billion XRP to non-profits, users and business partners for the foreseeable future: https://ripple.com/ripple_primer.pdf https://ripple.com/ripple_primer.pdf * XRP certainly isn't derivative of Bitcoin, but the original Ripple system that this is partially based on started in 2004: http://archive.ripple-project.org/Main/HomePage http://archive.ripple-project.org/Main/HomePage * Apparently you don't actually know what a pyramid scheme is or how one works, otherwise you would know that Ripple isn't one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme. * It's also not a Ponzi Scheme, incase you wanted to go there next: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme What Ripple is: a company, an approach and a currency you don't like and you clearly have an agenda to spread misinformation about it for reasons that are not clear. I have no affiliation with Ripple Labs, other than being impressed with their approach of addressing our archaic, fragmented payment system that works almost exactly the same as it did 20 years ago. I also have received XRP in a couple of giveaways. Don't get me wrong—I think Bitcoin is an incredible technology that changed the way we think about money, in ways we're just starting to grok. What Ripple enables—being able to pay anyone anywhere anytime with whatever currency you wish to use for essentially for free--is the killer app right now. This is what I mean by essentially free: I paid 0.000025 XRP to exchange USD for XRP: https://ripple.com/graph/#2EF43881B82AE8FBA31A2C3272E61CBC2EEDFF3F61F248FF16626BE99D6F81CF https://ripple.com/graph/#2EF43881B82AE8FBA31A2C3272E61CBC2E...). That's $0.00075 USD. :: drops the mic ::
    - goldenkey 13y ago
      * they're committed to give away 55 billion XRP to non-profits, users and business partners for the foreseeable future: https://ripple.com/ripple_primer.pdf https://ripple.com/ripple_primer.pdf 'Committed' Heh. I guess Ripple is a religion, because you've got to have ulterior motives or faith in demons.. Enough said. It's a friggin' scam. Enjoy that free XRP that OpenCoin started you off with, like a baby nursing on a milk bag.
21echoes 13y ago
main ones that come to mind: clinkle, dwolla, venmo. but the particular company doesn't matter so much as the clear market trend: fees are in a race-to-the-bottom mode right now, and within 10 years i fully expect them to be effectively 0, if not actually 0.

ashray 13y ago

Unfortunately the barrier to this has been counterparty risk management. The players in the payment space are limited by their contracts with Visa/Mastercard/etc. and therefore have to manage risk accordingly. This is what increases the fees. (chargebacks almost always honored, etc. etc.) Paypal offers micropayments and their rates are by far the most competitive. You know what happens ? I get paid $2 per subscription and Paypal pays me $1.83. That's an 8.5% commission! It's the best rate in the industry! (right now..) It's just that the more middle men you add, the more fees you're going to need. The current financial system is a truckload of middlemen and yes, they do have their utility and run immensely large networks (visa/mastercard/etc.). The only way to lower fees is to cut them out, whether that's going to be bitcoin or someone else is anyone's guess. But bitcoin is definitely a viable prototype.