5 ms·

This is the same bull*t that is thrown at Castro, Che Guevara, and many others. You can't make a revolution without guns, when the other side has all the power

This is the same bull*t that is thrown at Castro, Che Guevara, and many others. You can't make a revolution without guns, when the other side has all the power and lots of guns as well. Almost all independence wars (and I say almost, because there's this nice dude Gandhi, but I'm not sure it was an actual war) were fought with weapons, not with flowers and nice thoughts. If you're from the US you should know better, considering that your Constitution clearly states (paraphrasing) that you have a right to bear arms, in case the government tries to take away your freedoms.

tcdent 13y ago
I don't think most Americans understand the second amendment, even if they are in support of it.
gwern 13y ago
> This is the same bull*t that is thrown at Castro, Che Guevara, and many others. Bullshit? Should we infer that you think Castro's Cuba was a smashing success and has totally justified all the bad things he and his followers did?
- tcdent 13y ago
  Care to elaborate on "all of the bad things"? If there's anything to take away from this discussion on Mandela, it's that there are a lot of misunderstandings about what actually happened, especially if you are primarily informed by American media.
  - noarchy 13y ago
    "all of the bad things" seem to continue: Cuba remains the only country in Latin America that represses virtually all forms of political dissent. The government of Raúl Castro continues to enforce political conformity using short-term detentions, beatings, public acts of repudiation, travel restrictions, and forced exile. Although the Cuban government released dozens of political prisoners on the condition that they leave the country, the government continues to sentence dissidents in closed, summary trials. The government has also relied increasingly upon arbitrary arrests and short-term detentions to restrict the basic rights of its critics, including the right to assemble and move freely. http://www.hrw.org/americas/cuba http://www.hrw.org/americas/cuba Another source for info, if you don't like HRW: http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/cuba http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/cuba
    - oijaf888 13y ago
      Singapore is like that too but we don't seem to single them out for it do we?
      - noarchy 13y ago
        You're right. For North Americans, Cuba is local, and is discussed far more often. Singapore is definitely not without its issues (http://www.hrw.org/asia/singapore http://www.hrw.org/asia/singapore), and you'd be very hard pressed to find a state that doesn't abuse its power to some degree. Some are obviously worse than others.
    - mrleinad 13y ago
      How about this quote to reply to your post, and we remain on topic as well? "Freedom is meaningless if people cannot put food in their stomachs, if they can have no shelter, if illiteracy and disease continue to dog them." - Nelson Mandela I encourage you to read about how illiterate people were before Castro, and after Castro. Also if there was hunger, if people could afford to go to a doctor, and how unequal their society was.
      - noarchy 13y ago
        I don't want to get drawn into a false dichotomy. The pre-Castro period was no paradise, I'm fully aware.
        mrleinad 13y ago
        There's no point in critizicing Castro unless you also acknowledge everything he changed for good, and how the United States in the name of freedom and democracy wants to undo all that. Once you put everything at the same level, then you can start analyzing what's actually best for them.
        noarchy 13y ago
        >There's no point in critizicing Castro unless you also acknowledge everything he changed for good, and how the United States in the name of freedom and democracy wants to undo all that. Once you put everything at the same level, then you can start analyzing what's actually best for them. I've never made a statement about what is "best for them". That is up to them, or at least it should be. They currently have no opportunity to decide what is best for themselves, and apparently you think this is a great deal, and we shouldn't complain about anyone living under authoritarian regimes.
jd_free 13y ago
So, you equate Mandela with Castro and Guevara, and consider that a good thing? Care to through bin Laden in there? I guess fighting British soldiers is exactly the same as necklacing civilians, too, so it's fair to compare it too the US revolution.

tcdent 13y ago

I don't think most Americans understand the second amendment, even if they are in support of it.

gwern 13y ago

> This is the same bull*t that is thrown at Castro, Che Guevara, and many others. Bullshit? Should we infer that you think Castro's Cuba was a smashing success and has totally justified all the bad things he and his followers did?

tcdent 13y ago
Care to elaborate on "all of the bad things"? If there's anything to take away from this discussion on Mandela, it's that there are a lot of misunderstandings about what actually happened, especially if you are primarily informed by American media.
- noarchy 13y ago
  "all of the bad things" seem to continue: Cuba remains the only country in Latin America that represses virtually all forms of political dissent. The government of Raúl Castro continues to enforce political conformity using short-term detentions, beatings, public acts of repudiation, travel restrictions, and forced exile. Although the Cuban government released dozens of political prisoners on the condition that they leave the country, the government continues to sentence dissidents in closed, summary trials. The government has also relied increasingly upon arbitrary arrests and short-term detentions to restrict the basic rights of its critics, including the right to assemble and move freely. http://www.hrw.org/americas/cuba http://www.hrw.org/americas/cuba Another source for info, if you don't like HRW: http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/cuba http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/cuba
  - oijaf888 13y ago
    Singapore is like that too but we don't seem to single them out for it do we?
    - noarchy 13y ago
      You're right. For North Americans, Cuba is local, and is discussed far more often. Singapore is definitely not without its issues (http://www.hrw.org/asia/singapore http://www.hrw.org/asia/singapore), and you'd be very hard pressed to find a state that doesn't abuse its power to some degree. Some are obviously worse than others.
  - mrleinad 13y ago
    How about this quote to reply to your post, and we remain on topic as well? "Freedom is meaningless if people cannot put food in their stomachs, if they can have no shelter, if illiteracy and disease continue to dog them." - Nelson Mandela I encourage you to read about how illiterate people were before Castro, and after Castro. Also if there was hunger, if people could afford to go to a doctor, and how unequal their society was.
    - noarchy 13y ago
      I don't want to get drawn into a false dichotomy. The pre-Castro period was no paradise, I'm fully aware.
      - mrleinad 13y ago
        There's no point in critizicing Castro unless you also acknowledge everything he changed for good, and how the United States in the name of freedom and democracy wants to undo all that. Once you put everything at the same level, then you can start analyzing what's actually best for them.
        noarchy 13y ago
        >There's no point in critizicing Castro unless you also acknowledge everything he changed for good, and how the United States in the name of freedom and democracy wants to undo all that. Once you put everything at the same level, then you can start analyzing what's actually best for them. I've never made a statement about what is "best for them". That is up to them, or at least it should be. They currently have no opportunity to decide what is best for themselves, and apparently you think this is a great deal, and we shouldn't complain about anyone living under authoritarian regimes.

jd_free 13y ago

So, you equate Mandela with Castro and Guevara, and consider that a good thing? Care to through bin Laden in there? I guess fighting British soldiers is exactly the same as necklacing civilians, too, so it's fair to compare it too the US revolution.