5 ms·

I agree. The GUI changes in Windows (pre-8) are pretty negligible. Your Start button used to be rectangular; now it's a circle. Big whoop. The most frustrat

by pit 13y ago

I agree. The GUI changes in Windows (pre-8) are pretty negligible. Your Start button used to be rectangular; now it's a circle. Big whoop. The most frustrating thing for me about Windows over the years is that the path to perform routine tasks is always changing.

Goladus 13y ago
Your Start button used to be rectangular; now it's a circle. Big whoop Between versions of windows there are fairly substantial changes in how the start menu is organized and how a user can customize it. I'm using Windows 7 and I'm still not sure how the items in the primary menu are selected to be there. It usually seems to have what I'm looking for so I don't worry too much. But it's not as usable as I remember from older versions of windows. That said, I do think the article sells windows short unfairly. It's true that (pre Windows-8, anyway) key gui features of windows have remained consistent between versions. I haven't ranted about Windows in a long time (other Microsoft products, that's a different story). Incidentally, I believe the particular feature you refer to, the start menu as a general principle, is one of the best design choices microsoft ever made. It's not the most efficient way to organize a UI, but a hierarchical system is a great way to design for incremental discovery.
- fat0wl 13y ago
  yeah i mean theres a bit of a learning curve in terms of how the menus are arranged but its manageable. All the same basic elements are there (control panel, my computer, etc). I think Mac has changed some of these internal menu/organization too, that's what OSes tend to do. I almost burst out laughing when I got to the Windows page and saw the "COMPLETE OVERHAULSSS" between each release... basically just minor changes to Start button / taskbar. But all in all if Windows 8 is a big change or something I think it's cuz they're trying to now go with "OK. well. people are computer literate now. they know what an OS does. where can we go from here?" It may not be painless but to me the Mac approach has always been a dull wrapper shielding us from the true power of our computers.
- FireBeyond 13y ago
  "I'm using Windows 7 and I'm still not sure how the items in the primary menu are selected to be there." Most recently used. And by implication, most commonly used. "It usually seems to have what I'm looking for so I don't worry too much." Et voila.
  - Goladus 13y ago
    Most recently used. And by implication, most commonly used. Well, which is it? There appear to be two categories, one on the top and one on the bottom. Both appear to be some formula of recently used, commonly used, and likely to use again but it's not clear what the difference is or what the secret sauce part of the formula is (.exe size, for example?). The only thing it's obviously NOT, is a strict "recently used" formula. Also the submenus are just weird. It would seem to be "recently used files" for the associated application but with putty, for example, there's only a single random .jpg file and attempting to open it causes an error. Obviously I suppose, putty can't open jpgs, but why is it even there and how do I get rid of it? No idea. I can "unpin" it but it doesn't go away. Also, to the main point-- the contents of that menu have changed substantially from windows XP, meaning that I pretty much have to throw away most of what I learned from the previous version. It's really a mess. Some things I launch from the start menu, others I launch from a desktop icon, others I have to search for using the search box. Outlook and firefox are in the quicklaunch area. Even one tool I use all the time (procexp.exe) never gets added to the start menu, yet the videogame LIMBO is there, which I played once last year over the course of a few days and then opened it once for 5 minutes 1-2 weeks ago and haven't touched it in the interim. It's not that it's so horrible I can't get things done, but all this UI change improves nothing about my user experience over windows XP (which still had a section for recently used apps, which was a convenient and useful addition to the core design.). The search is faster, and adding search with a new results UI as the fallback behavior to what used to be the "run..." command window was a very sensible tweak. But the new UI tends to cause some minor annoyances any time I want to do anything of the sort of power-user stuff I used to do when I was younger. My prior knowledge of windows is rapidly becoming useless and I'm getting very little from the OS in return.
- pit 13y ago
  That's true -- the Start menu has gone through a lot more changes than the shape of the button (moving from one column to two, for example). I guess I was trying to downplay those changes, which have been less disruptive to my workflow than, say, when "Add/Remove Programs" became "Programs and Features", or "C:\Documents and Settings\pit" became "C:\Users\pit" (and because of backwards compatibility, in Windows 7 we have both). Admittedly, these sound like trivialities. My point is that learning how to use software is work. I've found it to be unpleasant work with Microsoft products, particularly when what you've learned in one release don't apply in the next release. And not in five big ways; in ten thousand little ways.

by pit 13y ago

Goladus 13y ago

Your Start button used to be rectangular; now it's a circle. Big whoop Between versions of windows there are fairly substantial changes in how the start menu is organized and how a user can customize it. I'm using Windows 7 and I'm still not sure how the items in the primary menu are selected to be there. It usually seems to have what I'm looking for so I don't worry too much. But it's not as usable as I remember from older versions of windows. That said, I do think the article sells windows short unfairly. It's true that (pre Windows-8, anyway) key gui features of windows have remained consistent between versions. I haven't ranted about Windows in a long time (other Microsoft products, that's a different story). Incidentally, I believe the particular feature you refer to, the start menu as a general principle, is one of the best design choices microsoft ever made. It's not the most efficient way to organize a UI, but a hierarchical system is a great way to design for incremental discovery.

fat0wl 13y ago
yeah i mean theres a bit of a learning curve in terms of how the menus are arranged but its manageable. All the same basic elements are there (control panel, my computer, etc). I think Mac has changed some of these internal menu/organization too, that's what OSes tend to do. I almost burst out laughing when I got to the Windows page and saw the "COMPLETE OVERHAULSSS" between each release... basically just minor changes to Start button / taskbar. But all in all if Windows 8 is a big change or something I think it's cuz they're trying to now go with "OK. well. people are computer literate now. they know what an OS does. where can we go from here?" It may not be painless but to me the Mac approach has always been a dull wrapper shielding us from the true power of our computers.
FireBeyond 13y ago
"I'm using Windows 7 and I'm still not sure how the items in the primary menu are selected to be there." Most recently used. And by implication, most commonly used. "It usually seems to have what I'm looking for so I don't worry too much." Et voila.
- Goladus 13y ago
  Most recently used. And by implication, most commonly used. Well, which is it? There appear to be two categories, one on the top and one on the bottom. Both appear to be some formula of recently used, commonly used, and likely to use again but it's not clear what the difference is or what the secret sauce part of the formula is (.exe size, for example?). The only thing it's obviously NOT, is a strict "recently used" formula. Also the submenus are just weird. It would seem to be "recently used files" for the associated application but with putty, for example, there's only a single random .jpg file and attempting to open it causes an error. Obviously I suppose, putty can't open jpgs, but why is it even there and how do I get rid of it? No idea. I can "unpin" it but it doesn't go away. Also, to the main point-- the contents of that menu have changed substantially from windows XP, meaning that I pretty much have to throw away most of what I learned from the previous version. It's really a mess. Some things I launch from the start menu, others I launch from a desktop icon, others I have to search for using the search box. Outlook and firefox are in the quicklaunch area. Even one tool I use all the time (procexp.exe) never gets added to the start menu, yet the videogame LIMBO is there, which I played once last year over the course of a few days and then opened it once for 5 minutes 1-2 weeks ago and haven't touched it in the interim. It's not that it's so horrible I can't get things done, but all this UI change improves nothing about my user experience over windows XP (which still had a section for recently used apps, which was a convenient and useful addition to the core design.). The search is faster, and adding search with a new results UI as the fallback behavior to what used to be the "run..." command window was a very sensible tweak. But the new UI tends to cause some minor annoyances any time I want to do anything of the sort of power-user stuff I used to do when I was younger. My prior knowledge of windows is rapidly becoming useless and I'm getting very little from the OS in return.
pit 13y ago
That's true -- the Start menu has gone through a lot more changes than the shape of the button (moving from one column to two, for example). I guess I was trying to downplay those changes, which have been less disruptive to my workflow than, say, when "Add/Remove Programs" became "Programs and Features", or "C:\Documents and Settings\pit" became "C:\Users\pit" (and because of backwards compatibility, in Windows 7 we have both). Admittedly, these sound like trivialities. My point is that learning how to use software is work. I've found it to be unpleasant work with Microsoft products, particularly when what you've learned in one release don't apply in the next release. And not in five big ways; in ten thousand little ways.