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I mean, the problem is that there's a bit of a cultural difference between Americans circa-Industrial Revolution, and the Chinese now. So saying that the Chines

I mean, the problem is that there's a bit of a cultural difference between Americans circa-Industrial Revolution, and the Chinese now. So saying that the Chinese will stand up and protest isn't necessarily true. I don't want to speak for all Chinese, but from what I've read -- please correct me if I'm wrong -- is that there is more of a culture of deference to authority in China. Compare this to Americans, who have a history and pride in rebelling against authority. Now, you might point to China's communist revolution, but realize that with this government came the need for them to propagandize and popularize a love and respect for the government in control, much more so than in the U.S. So back to my original point, protest culture isn't as much of a thing there as it is here, because there's more of a sense of working for the collective good (economic growth of China). So I'm hoping that there will by outcry, but I think it is unfortunately less likely than it would be in the U.S. due to Chinese culture. I'd also like to here some local insight as well, and I hope I'm proved wrong because it would be awesome if there was a public outcry.

babesh 13y ago
My impression is that it has to do with Tiananmen Square (been there, tried that, didn't work) and being complicit in trading off economic advancement for maintaining Communist party rule. Also many government officials directly benefit from economic advancement via bribery/corruption.
- veidr 13y ago
  > being complicit in trading off economic advancement for maintaining Communist party rule. I think 'complicit' might be an overstatement here; it's not like you can just go vote for the Democrats in China right? I really doubt Barack Obama would be the American president today if the real penalties for advocating for the replacement of the Republican Party regime of 2000 had included death, life in a torture camp, similar things for your family, etc.
AllenKids 13y ago
There is constant outcry especially since last year. And protest happens daily in China. It's just that normally people stay on particular issues at hand rather than nebular banners such as "small government" etc, for cultural reasons and the protestors' own safety.
rz2k 13y ago
There are astonishing numbers of protests in China every year.[1][2] I also think the culture for factory workers during the industrial revolution was one of deference to authority, and that it took extreme conditions to spur them to protest their conditions. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_and_dissent_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_and_dissent_in_the_Peop... [2] http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/02/rising-protests-in-china/100247/ http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/02/rising-protests-i...
- dylandrop 13y ago
  That's good to hear. My only point about protesting in America was that it's very ingrained in our culture to protest, even for small issues. I didn't really know much about Chinese protesting culture, but it's good to hear they do it in large numbers.
  - dreamfactory 13y ago
    As far as I understand, public unrest is one of the greatest fears of Chinese leadership, hence tight control and censorship. That may speak volumes about the willingness of their public to take control along with protesting (as opposed to the West where protest is seen as a safety valve and therefore encouraged in proscribed forms).
    - dylandrop 13y ago
      Well, I hope that's true, but I don't know if I necessarily agree with the idea "they have an oppressive government thus they must be able to take control with protesting". It could be that the government feels the need to be this way because they know just how screwed up everything (pollution, persecution, etc.) is, and are oppressive as a safety measure.
      - dreamfactory 13y ago
        ...think that's what I said - the oppression is a response to perception of a greater evil of instability. Scratch any country's leadership and you'll get the same kind of result. The question is whether that is justified, and historically seems to be more usually a case of paranoia, micro-management, and control freakery.
auhnadil 13y ago
Agree.There have been some complains and disscussions about air pollution recently. They can easily be found online, whereas you won't find people talking about it or worry about it very much. The way of how Chinese expressing their feelings is far more different than a public outcry. Hence, people are certainly waiting for the action of their government. And, what about those who are so confident and think they will not be the next victim of the air pollution? Was Shanghai one of them who have this thought?
jchan 13y ago
This is a common (and racist) but incorrect generalization about Chinese culture. Look up the history of China and you will find millennia of successful rebellions against authority percieved as having lost a "mandate." Contrast that to Europe or America. The thing I think is really important but often falsely confused with a lack of willingness to protest is a general distaste for the sort of personalized politics prevalent in the West. Chinese political participation in the US is lower than average. It seems like the culture in that sense is more focused on success economically and academically. It's important to remember that the only reason the Communists have managed to last so long is because of their "support" from the start of the farmers, i.e., not killing and stealing from them like the KMT. As soon as that support is lost en masse, we will see another percieved experation of a mandate and another revolution in a long series of revolutions. What that will mean for the Chinese or whether that will mean more democracy we will have to wait and see.

babesh 13y ago

My impression is that it has to do with Tiananmen Square (been there, tried that, didn't work) and being complicit in trading off economic advancement for maintaining Communist party rule. Also many government officials directly benefit from economic advancement via bribery/corruption.

veidr 13y ago
> being complicit in trading off economic advancement for maintaining Communist party rule. I think 'complicit' might be an overstatement here; it's not like you can just go vote for the Democrats in China right? I really doubt Barack Obama would be the American president today if the real penalties for advocating for the replacement of the Republican Party regime of 2000 had included death, life in a torture camp, similar things for your family, etc.

AllenKids 13y ago

There is constant outcry especially since last year. And protest happens daily in China. It's just that normally people stay on particular issues at hand rather than nebular banners such as "small government" etc, for cultural reasons and the protestors' own safety.

rz2k 13y ago

There are astonishing numbers of protests in China every year.[1][2] I also think the culture for factory workers during the industrial revolution was one of deference to authority, and that it took extreme conditions to spur them to protest their conditions. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_and_dissent_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_and_dissent_in_the_Peop... [2] http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/02/rising-protests-in-china/100247/ http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/02/rising-protests-i...

dylandrop 13y ago
That's good to hear. My only point about protesting in America was that it's very ingrained in our culture to protest, even for small issues. I didn't really know much about Chinese protesting culture, but it's good to hear they do it in large numbers.
- dreamfactory 13y ago
  As far as I understand, public unrest is one of the greatest fears of Chinese leadership, hence tight control and censorship. That may speak volumes about the willingness of their public to take control along with protesting (as opposed to the West where protest is seen as a safety valve and therefore encouraged in proscribed forms).
  - dylandrop 13y ago
    Well, I hope that's true, but I don't know if I necessarily agree with the idea "they have an oppressive government thus they must be able to take control with protesting". It could be that the government feels the need to be this way because they know just how screwed up everything (pollution, persecution, etc.) is, and are oppressive as a safety measure.
    - dreamfactory 13y ago
      ...think that's what I said - the oppression is a response to perception of a greater evil of instability. Scratch any country's leadership and you'll get the same kind of result. The question is whether that is justified, and historically seems to be more usually a case of paranoia, micro-management, and control freakery.

auhnadil 13y ago

Agree.There have been some complains and disscussions about air pollution recently. They can easily be found online, whereas you won't find people talking about it or worry about it very much. The way of how Chinese expressing their feelings is far more different than a public outcry. Hence, people are certainly waiting for the action of their government. And, what about those who are so confident and think they will not be the next victim of the air pollution? Was Shanghai one of them who have this thought?

jchan 13y ago

This is a common (and racist) but incorrect generalization about Chinese culture. Look up the history of China and you will find millennia of successful rebellions against authority percieved as having lost a "mandate." Contrast that to Europe or America. The thing I think is really important but often falsely confused with a lack of willingness to protest is a general distaste for the sort of personalized politics prevalent in the West. Chinese political participation in the US is lower than average. It seems like the culture in that sense is more focused on success economically and academically. It's important to remember that the only reason the Communists have managed to last so long is because of their "support" from the start of the farmers, i.e., not killing and stealing from them like the KMT. As soon as that support is lost en masse, we will see another percieved experation of a mandate and another revolution in a long series of revolutions. What that will mean for the Chinese or whether that will mean more democracy we will have to wait and see.