4 ms·

So how are you guys solving the Commercial Mail Receiving Agency (CMRA) problem? Congress passed a law in 2001 regarding CMRAs and directed the USPS to establi

So how are you guys solving the Commercial Mail Receiving Agency (CMRA) problem? Congress passed a law in 2001 regarding CMRAs and directed the USPS to establish regulations regarding them. What it boils down to is that in order to receive USPS mail on someone's behalf as a commercial entity, you've got to register with your local post office AND have all your customers do so as well. http://www.rscentral.org/Programs/USPS-Retail-Programs/USPS-CMRA-Program.aspx http://www.rscentral.org/Programs/USPS-Retail-Programs/USPS-... If you only accept UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc but no USPS you're in a legally grey area. Most reasonably adults would suggest that FedEx isn't "mail" the same way that what the USPS delivers IS mail. But I haven't seen any case law either way on this but I'm not a lawyer so it could be out there. The reason this is a problem is that the purchaser (the SwapBox customer) doesn't always have control over how the items he/she purchases will be shipped. Think Amazon Marketplace or eBay; they often go "whatever's cheapest" and you don't get a choice since it's a $10 item with free shipping. When that happens the USPS can't legally deliver the items to the SwapBox and will return them to the shipper. If SwapBox does go the route of registering with the local post office(s) as a CMRA it gets worse. According to the regs you have to register as a customer at a particular address. So if you want to get mail at SwapBox A you have to fill out paperwork and get it delivered to the post office for SwapBox A. Now if you want to get deliveries at SwapBox B, which is at a different physical address than A? You got it, another set of paperwork for the post office that delivers to SwapBox B. This is not a trivial problem to solve. I know, I used to work at a mid-sized CMRA and there's no way around it, legally, without lobbying Congress to change the law. At least that I could come up with. EDIT: Transcript from Congressional Hearing is here http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-106hhrg61646/pdf/CHRG-106hhrg61646.pdf http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-106hhrg61646/pdf/CHRG-106h... EDIT2: I don't want to discourage you guys, there may be a way around this. I suppose that might be some kind of competitive advantage so you might not disclose it publicly. If you didn't know about this already and you want I'd be happy to explain this whole thing in detail and/or give you some things I already looked into as ways to ease the pain. I'm not sure what the proper "get in touch in real life protocol" is here on HN.

bstewr 13y ago
Typically with these services they have a central location that they have you ship things to and then the service will go deliver it to the right box. This is how Bufferbox does it and I assume how these guys are as well.
- msandford 13y ago
  That makes sense. It doesn't scale terribly well because as you get more than maybe an hour from the central location by car/truck you can't expand further. It also doesn't solve the problem of needing to have the customer fill out the form which scares tons of them away. It's either got to be signed in front of one of the company's employees, or notarized. Neither of which makes it easy for a company to grow. It also means that you're still fairly tied down. Yeah a metro area is much larger than a single zip code, but it's definitely not a nationwide rollout in any kind of reasonable timeframe.
  - bstewr 13y ago
    It definitely seems pretty capital intensive as well with all the delivery vehicles and the actual boxes. As for signing - I don't think the delivery guys are as concerned just as long as someone accepts it. For instance in San Francisco roommates usually accept for each other without really needing to sign. I've also heard issues with amazon lockers being full most of the time so people will need to find a different spot and I'm curious if it will be the same for this. Overall I think there are still a good number of problems these guys will need to straighten out to be able to scale. I'd also be curious how much they are paying the stores with the actual boxes.
    - msandford 13y ago
      You're right that the delivery guys aren't too concerned so long as it's non-commercial. So a roommate or neighbor or the apartment front office or whatever is no problem. That's how you can get USPS packages at your work even if it's a huge building; the mail department at your work isn't a separate business that charges you for the accepting your mail. Once it's clear that it's a mail accepting for hire kind of business though the USPS guys will be sticklers about it. Ultimately I expect that these businesses will get bought up by UPS or FedEx for the software, the already designed physical boxes and the small but existent network of facilities. Once that happens they will become a nationwide thing but only in areas where the drivers have to do lots of re-delivery. They will look at it as a cost reduction more than anything else. At least that's my take.

bstewr 13y ago

Typically with these services they have a central location that they have you ship things to and then the service will go deliver it to the right box. This is how Bufferbox does it and I assume how these guys are as well.

msandford 13y ago
That makes sense. It doesn't scale terribly well because as you get more than maybe an hour from the central location by car/truck you can't expand further. It also doesn't solve the problem of needing to have the customer fill out the form which scares tons of them away. It's either got to be signed in front of one of the company's employees, or notarized. Neither of which makes it easy for a company to grow. It also means that you're still fairly tied down. Yeah a metro area is much larger than a single zip code, but it's definitely not a nationwide rollout in any kind of reasonable timeframe.
- bstewr 13y ago
  It definitely seems pretty capital intensive as well with all the delivery vehicles and the actual boxes. As for signing - I don't think the delivery guys are as concerned just as long as someone accepts it. For instance in San Francisco roommates usually accept for each other without really needing to sign. I've also heard issues with amazon lockers being full most of the time so people will need to find a different spot and I'm curious if it will be the same for this. Overall I think there are still a good number of problems these guys will need to straighten out to be able to scale. I'd also be curious how much they are paying the stores with the actual boxes.
  - msandford 13y ago
    You're right that the delivery guys aren't too concerned so long as it's non-commercial. So a roommate or neighbor or the apartment front office or whatever is no problem. That's how you can get USPS packages at your work even if it's a huge building; the mail department at your work isn't a separate business that charges you for the accepting your mail. Once it's clear that it's a mail accepting for hire kind of business though the USPS guys will be sticklers about it. Ultimately I expect that these businesses will get bought up by UPS or FedEx for the software, the already designed physical boxes and the small but existent network of facilities. Once that happens they will become a nationwide thing but only in areas where the drivers have to do lots of re-delivery. They will look at it as a cost reduction more than anything else. At least that's my take.