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Hopefully someday we'll see hearings on Americans massacring South Korean civilians some day ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Gun_Ri_Massacre http://en.wikiped

Hopefully someday we'll see hearings on Americans massacring South Korean civilians some day ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Gun_Ri_Massacre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Gun_Ri_Massacre ). We even have written orders and memoes showing it was U.S. policy to fire upon civilians. Or maybe supporting the dictatorship in South Korea, and it's massacre against members of the democratization movement in 1980 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwangju_Democratization_Movement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwangju_Democratization_Movemen... ). General Wickham sent troops from the DMZ so that the South Korean army could commit the massacre actually. We could go on about Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib torture, the NSA spying on all e-mails, phone calls and web site browsing and saving it forever etc. But no, let's hear more about a US Senate hearing on human rights in North Korea - from 11 years ago...what a farce.

roel_v 13y ago
It's quite offensive by itself that you're even suggesting the things you are listing are within 2 or 3 orders of magnitude within what is happening in North Korea.
- DominikR 13y ago
  What exactly makes you believe that this testimony is accurate, and not just manufactured by the US government. It wouldn't be the first time they did that.
  - dba7dba 13y ago
    You think the Senate testimony is fabricated? How about this story? http://www.npr.org/2012/03/29/149061951/escape-from-camp-14-inside-north-koreas-gulag http://www.npr.org/2012/03/29/149061951/escape-from-camp-14-... If you think camp 14 is fabricated, how about detaining 85 year old American veteran with no due process? But i know, you will keep saying it's all fabricated...
    - DominikR 13y ago
      I am not defending the north korean regime, since there is enough data that proves that it is oppressive and violates human rights on a large scale. (just like the US government did with all their wars since 1950 that killed millions, or extrajudical executions of US citizens in the war on terror, or torture and indefinite detention without trial) And no, I am not strictly believing that the Senate testimony is fabricated, it's just a possibility for me, since there are documented cases where testimony was fabricated in front of the Senate to legitimate a war.
  - roel_v 13y ago
    Look dude, like my nan used to say - "when you're in a hole, stop digging". You're treading in the area of being a holocaust denier, ever inforcing the repulsive subhuman persona you're building under this handle.
    - DominikR 13y ago
      I question this testimony exactly because the US government is known to have manufactured testimony and evidence to legitimate wars before. (Gulf War: Iraqi soldiers tear babies out of incubators and threw them on the floor to die, Iraq War: Saddam has weapons of mass destruction and so on) I am not willing to cheer "bomb north korea" (or some other country) just because one person is testifying something in front of the senate. You calling me subhuman and a holocaust denier because of that just reflects poorly on yourself, since that kind of rhetoric is exactly what the Nazis have used to quiet dissenters.
droopyEyelids 13y ago
In my opinion, regular people will always be struggling agains the power structures that control their lives. Just because we're subject to or even party to a government that commits atrocities doesn't mean we should give up trying to fight against other injustices. I don't feel there is any inconsistency in using our government to expose or stop other government's problems even when we have our own, so long as we're working against our own country's injustices, too. I do recognize that people could read this and think it's only 'others' that are bad, but I believe there will always be a percent of people that misinterpret or warp anything to suit their own ends, and that fact doesn't mean we should stop trying to make things better.
dba7dba 13y ago
firstOrder, It was also a written policy of the communists to infiltrate rear of UN forces by mixing in with refugees. Maybe there were no communist soldiers in the particular group fired upon, but it's well known communists mixed in with fleeing refugees to get advantage on the battle field. 1980, what year was that? Yes, in the middle of the Cold War. Both sides on fingers to possibly launch hundreds of nukes. I'm sure the US held their nose as they 'supported' the newly emerging military dictator in SKorea. Simply, US had no choice. And guess what the testimony from 11 years isn't the only related story. It's even more relevant as there are lots more, depressing stories coming out of NKorea. http://www.npr.org/2012/03/29/149061951/escape-from-camp-14-inside-north-koreas-gulag http://www.npr.org/2012/03/29/149061951/escape-from-camp-14-...

roel_v 13y ago

It's quite offensive by itself that you're even suggesting the things you are listing are within 2 or 3 orders of magnitude within what is happening in North Korea.

DominikR 13y ago
What exactly makes you believe that this testimony is accurate, and not just manufactured by the US government. It wouldn't be the first time they did that.
- dba7dba 13y ago
  You think the Senate testimony is fabricated? How about this story? http://www.npr.org/2012/03/29/149061951/escape-from-camp-14-inside-north-koreas-gulag http://www.npr.org/2012/03/29/149061951/escape-from-camp-14-... If you think camp 14 is fabricated, how about detaining 85 year old American veteran with no due process? But i know, you will keep saying it's all fabricated...
  - DominikR 13y ago
    I am not defending the north korean regime, since there is enough data that proves that it is oppressive and violates human rights on a large scale. (just like the US government did with all their wars since 1950 that killed millions, or extrajudical executions of US citizens in the war on terror, or torture and indefinite detention without trial) And no, I am not strictly believing that the Senate testimony is fabricated, it's just a possibility for me, since there are documented cases where testimony was fabricated in front of the Senate to legitimate a war.
- roel_v 13y ago
  Look dude, like my nan used to say - "when you're in a hole, stop digging". You're treading in the area of being a holocaust denier, ever inforcing the repulsive subhuman persona you're building under this handle.
  - DominikR 13y ago
    I question this testimony exactly because the US government is known to have manufactured testimony and evidence to legitimate wars before. (Gulf War: Iraqi soldiers tear babies out of incubators and threw them on the floor to die, Iraq War: Saddam has weapons of mass destruction and so on) I am not willing to cheer "bomb north korea" (or some other country) just because one person is testifying something in front of the senate. You calling me subhuman and a holocaust denier because of that just reflects poorly on yourself, since that kind of rhetoric is exactly what the Nazis have used to quiet dissenters.

droopyEyelids 13y ago

In my opinion, regular people will always be struggling agains the power structures that control their lives. Just because we're subject to or even party to a government that commits atrocities doesn't mean we should give up trying to fight against other injustices. I don't feel there is any inconsistency in using our government to expose or stop other government's problems even when we have our own, so long as we're working against our own country's injustices, too. I do recognize that people could read this and think it's only 'others' that are bad, but I believe there will always be a percent of people that misinterpret or warp anything to suit their own ends, and that fact doesn't mean we should stop trying to make things better.

dba7dba 13y ago

firstOrder, It was also a written policy of the communists to infiltrate rear of UN forces by mixing in with refugees. Maybe there were no communist soldiers in the particular group fired upon, but it's well known communists mixed in with fleeing refugees to get advantage on the battle field. 1980, what year was that? Yes, in the middle of the Cold War. Both sides on fingers to possibly launch hundreds of nukes. I'm sure the US held their nose as they 'supported' the newly emerging military dictator in SKorea. Simply, US had no choice. And guess what the testimony from 11 years isn't the only related story. It's even more relevant as there are lots more, depressing stories coming out of NKorea. http://www.npr.org/2012/03/29/149061951/escape-from-camp-14-inside-north-koreas-gulag http://www.npr.org/2012/03/29/149061951/escape-from-camp-14-...