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Former soldier here: veteran of the first Gulf War. Was on the ground in Saudi, and during the push into Iraq when the ground war started. Pretty sure I didn'

Former soldier here: veteran of the first Gulf War. Was on the ground in Saudi, and during the push into Iraq when the ground war started. Pretty sure I didn't engage in any baby-killing, but thanks for furthering the stereotype. Edit: I specifically said "baby-killing" because this is the kind of slander thrown at my father's generation when they returned from Vietnam. Not all soldiers are killers, and to imply that they are is offensive. It's sad that I have to point this out.

JTon 13y ago
Was there an edit? I don't see any mention of baby-killing
kevincrane 13y ago
He didn't mention any sensationalist baby-killing in his post, but one common side effect of war, and by extension soldiers, is the killing of other humans right?
kordless 13y ago
I respect you and are grateful that you risked your life during your service for us. However, making false blaming statements isn't going to help your cause. Datsundere didn't say you killed babies. He said that soldiers kill people, which is a true statement. It's part of being a soldier, but it isn't necessarily the right thing to do moving forward for humanity. You personally aren't on the hook for this. You signed up for the military, took oaths to defend us (for which I am very grateful) and took orders from decision makers who may or may not have been influenced in their decisions to do the right thing. The rest of us have a right to voice those concerns and ask hard questions about the opportunity cost of warfare. That doesn't mean we're questioning the concept of chain of command. I hope our sons and daughters end up living in a world where risk is still ever present, but it is used for exploration and the furtherment of humanity, instead of fighting and killing each other over what will later be considered less important matters. Edit for fellow HNers: Voting down a soldier for expressing some emotion isn't cool. You don't have to apply (misweighted) negative karma to someone who is sharing an important experience of their life to make an impact in the conversation. +1 on the parent - listen to your fellow man, no matter what he is saying.
- clamour 13y ago
  Sorry to be a jerk but does it annoy anyone how often conversations about the military/soldiers go through the perfunctory "I respect your service blah blah blah..."? The term "military service" itself irks me to no end. It's not service, it's a government job. No one thanks DMV employees for their "service".
  - aestra 13y ago
    Actually, there is the term "civil service" that denote all other government jobs that are nonmilitary. I always referred to my mother as a civil servant (she held a government job for 35 years before retiring) My husband is a career sailor, in his 3rd enlistment, Iraq war veteran, and he takes more of a "it's a job" look at it. He still doesn't really know how to respond to strangers' "thank you for your service" even after 14 years. I think people say it because they respect someone's willingness to risk their life. Especially since we are taught that the military defends our freedom.
- ahoy 13y ago
  I agree with most of your post, but I disagree with the salute-the-troops attitude. Were the parent from any profession other than the military, no one would take any issue with downvoting his tirade. If you really want to 'support the troops,' stop making idols of them and start treating them like people.
- MrZongle2 13y ago
  However, making false blaming statements isn't going to help your cause. The OP quote was: "Soldiers fight for their own people but untimately [sic] end up killing other HUMANS." I'm assuming the word was "ultimately", which is incorrect. Not all soldiers ultimately end up killing. The statement was wrong and offensive. I will not apologize for getting in OP's chili about it.
  - kordless 13y ago
    I agree the OPs quote was less than ideal, but that doesn't mean you can speak for him. There's a difference between you saying what you feel and you saying what others said/feel. The latter should be avoided, if possible.
hnriot 13y ago
"Not all soldiers are killers, and to imply that they are is offensive" - you must have missed something in basic training - why do you think soldiers carry weapons? It's not to help old ladies cross the street. I totally understand why a nation needs a big stick to defend its interests, but please let's not delude ourselves that when we weild that stick it doesn't mean killing people. Soldiers that are not killers are called civilians.
- MrZongle2 13y ago
  ...you must have missed something in basic training... Enlighten me, since you apparently took comprehensive notes. Soldiers that are not killers are called civilians. Really? I thought they were called intel analysts, medics, chaplains, cooks, mechanics, electronics repair specialists, drill sergeants...etc etc etc. I must have missed something else in Basic Training, I guess. Maybe I was all hopped up on adrenaline, while I was running around trying to stab people with my bayonet. Perhaps you should re-check that filter between your brain and keyboard, son.

JTon 13y ago

Was there an edit? I don't see any mention of baby-killing

kevincrane 13y ago

He didn't mention any sensationalist baby-killing in his post, but one common side effect of war, and by extension soldiers, is the killing of other humans right?

kordless 13y ago

I respect you and are grateful that you risked your life during your service for us. However, making false blaming statements isn't going to help your cause. Datsundere didn't say you killed babies. He said that soldiers kill people, which is a true statement. It's part of being a soldier, but it isn't necessarily the right thing to do moving forward for humanity. You personally aren't on the hook for this. You signed up for the military, took oaths to defend us (for which I am very grateful) and took orders from decision makers who may or may not have been influenced in their decisions to do the right thing. The rest of us have a right to voice those concerns and ask hard questions about the opportunity cost of warfare. That doesn't mean we're questioning the concept of chain of command. I hope our sons and daughters end up living in a world where risk is still ever present, but it is used for exploration and the furtherment of humanity, instead of fighting and killing each other over what will later be considered less important matters. Edit for fellow HNers: Voting down a soldier for expressing some emotion isn't cool. You don't have to apply (misweighted) negative karma to someone who is sharing an important experience of their life to make an impact in the conversation. +1 on the parent - listen to your fellow man, no matter what he is saying.

clamour 13y ago
Sorry to be a jerk but does it annoy anyone how often conversations about the military/soldiers go through the perfunctory "I respect your service blah blah blah..."? The term "military service" itself irks me to no end. It's not service, it's a government job. No one thanks DMV employees for their "service".
- aestra 13y ago
  Actually, there is the term "civil service" that denote all other government jobs that are nonmilitary. I always referred to my mother as a civil servant (she held a government job for 35 years before retiring) My husband is a career sailor, in his 3rd enlistment, Iraq war veteran, and he takes more of a "it's a job" look at it. He still doesn't really know how to respond to strangers' "thank you for your service" even after 14 years. I think people say it because they respect someone's willingness to risk their life. Especially since we are taught that the military defends our freedom.
ahoy 13y ago
I agree with most of your post, but I disagree with the salute-the-troops attitude. Were the parent from any profession other than the military, no one would take any issue with downvoting his tirade. If you really want to 'support the troops,' stop making idols of them and start treating them like people.
MrZongle2 13y ago
However, making false blaming statements isn't going to help your cause. The OP quote was: "Soldiers fight for their own people but untimately [sic] end up killing other HUMANS." I'm assuming the word was "ultimately", which is incorrect. Not all soldiers ultimately end up killing. The statement was wrong and offensive. I will not apologize for getting in OP's chili about it.
- kordless 13y ago
  I agree the OPs quote was less than ideal, but that doesn't mean you can speak for him. There's a difference between you saying what you feel and you saying what others said/feel. The latter should be avoided, if possible.

hnriot 13y ago

"Not all soldiers are killers, and to imply that they are is offensive" - you must have missed something in basic training - why do you think soldiers carry weapons? It's not to help old ladies cross the street. I totally understand why a nation needs a big stick to defend its interests, but please let's not delude ourselves that when we weild that stick it doesn't mean killing people. Soldiers that are not killers are called civilians.

MrZongle2 13y ago
...you must have missed something in basic training... Enlighten me, since you apparently took comprehensive notes. Soldiers that are not killers are called civilians. Really? I thought they were called intel analysts, medics, chaplains, cooks, mechanics, electronics repair specialists, drill sergeants...etc etc etc. I must have missed something else in Basic Training, I guess. Maybe I was all hopped up on adrenaline, while I was running around trying to stab people with my bayonet. Perhaps you should re-check that filter between your brain and keyboard, son.