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I understand concerns about focusing on issues that are directly pertinent to the people of a country, however historically we have never seen a culture solve a

I understand concerns about focusing on issues that are directly pertinent to the people of a country, however historically we have never seen a culture solve all of its pressing problems and then decide to focus on science and exploration. Instead what we see is cultures committing to solve problems at home, but also investing resources in programs that look forward to new discoveries. I think it's short sighted to postpone space exploration simply because we don't have time for it today, or because we don't see the tangible benefit. The point of space exploration from the beginning has been to search for "truth and understanding," [1] a goal so noble that our astronauts risk their lives in pursuit of it. With greater understanding comes solutions to problems we never even knew we had. [1] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/In_the_event_of_moon_disaster.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/In_the_ev...

Datsundere 13y ago
Thank you for pointing this out. I respect astronauts more than soldiers for this reason. Soldiers fight for their own people but untimately end up killing other HUMANS. Astronauts are risking their lives on the other hand for the better of the entire human society. Unfortunately countries like to spend more money on war than space exploration, especially the United States.
- cobrausn 13y ago
  So, are you concerned about the betterment of the species or about individual humans? Unfortunately, the two are not always in alignment. As an aside, many astronauts are former soldiers.
  - GuiA 13y ago
    I'm not going to enter this deep, deep rabbithole- but I'd just like to point out that your post rests on the assumption that military leads to the betterment of the species/individual humans.
    - cobrausn 13y ago
      Not that it does - just that it can. FWIW, I'm no war hawk, I generally consider myself an anti-war veteran.
- sergiotapia 13y ago
  Let's take this further with a thought I always like to spend time musing on from time to time: If we discover alient life within our galaxy, and years pass and we become friendly. What if another galaxy attacks ours, and we fight them. Galaxy vs. Galaxy. One side wins, the other falls in line and is absorbed in their ways. The we form one huge 'quadrant' in space. Another quadrant attacks us ad infinity. When does the tribal, us vs. they end? -Does- it end?
  - makmanalp 13y ago
    The way I see it, conflict usually comes from means of profit, and limited resources. The universe is pretty damn big, and chances are once we're advanced enough to do space travel, there aren't going to be many resources in one place but not the other.
    - Myrth 13y ago
      Conflict may also come from misunderstanding. Imagine a civilization where individuals are blobs of goo, and their way to understand each other and procreate/mutate is to mix with each other. Now if they would encounter a human being and realize that it's sentient, they would try to understand it by trying to mix as they usually do. From human's perspective that would be an act of violence and would prompt immediate defense/offense.
  - krapp 13y ago
    I'm reminded of H.P. Lovecraft: that we live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. There's a lot not to like about Lovecraft but I think he pegged humanity's role in the cosmic order pretty well (we wouldn't have one.) Any species capable of reaching our planet from another galaxy will be more than advanced enough to wipe us out without effort. If there's any sort of competition for resources or territory between aggressive civilizations operating at that scale and we find ourselves in the middle, we just lose. Our "fighting" them would be akin to termites "fighting" a steamroller flattening their mound.
- MrZongle2 13y ago
  Former soldier here: veteran of the first Gulf War. Was on the ground in Saudi, and during the push into Iraq when the ground war started. Pretty sure I didn't engage in any baby-killing, but thanks for furthering the stereotype. Edit: I specifically said "baby-killing" because this is the kind of slander thrown at my father's generation when they returned from Vietnam. Not all soldiers are killers, and to imply that they are is offensive. It's sad that I have to point this out.
  - JTon 13y ago
    Was there an edit? I don't see any mention of baby-killing
  - kevincrane 13y ago
    He didn't mention any sensationalist baby-killing in his post, but one common side effect of war, and by extension soldiers, is the killing of other humans right?
  - kordless 13y ago
    I respect you and are grateful that you risked your life during your service for us. However, making false blaming statements isn't going to help your cause. Datsundere didn't say you killed babies. He said that soldiers kill people, which is a true statement. It's part of being a soldier, but it isn't necessarily the right thing to do moving forward for humanity. You personally aren't on the hook for this. You signed up for the military, took oaths to defend us (for which I am very grateful) and took orders from decision makers who may or may not have been influenced in their decisions to do the right thing. The rest of us have a right to voice those concerns and ask hard questions about the opportunity cost of warfare. That doesn't mean we're questioning the concept of chain of command. I hope our sons and daughters end up living in a world where risk is still ever present, but it is used for exploration and the furtherment of humanity, instead of fighting and killing each other over what will later be considered less important matters. Edit for fellow HNers: Voting down a soldier for expressing some emotion isn't cool. You don't have to apply (misweighted) negative karma to someone who is sharing an important experience of their life to make an impact in the conversation. +1 on the parent - listen to your fellow man, no matter what he is saying.

Datsundere 13y ago

Thank you for pointing this out. I respect astronauts more than soldiers for this reason. Soldiers fight for their own people but untimately end up killing other HUMANS. Astronauts are risking their lives on the other hand for the better of the entire human society. Unfortunately countries like to spend more money on war than space exploration, especially the United States.

cobrausn 13y ago
So, are you concerned about the betterment of the species or about individual humans? Unfortunately, the two are not always in alignment. As an aside, many astronauts are former soldiers.
- GuiA 13y ago
  I'm not going to enter this deep, deep rabbithole- but I'd just like to point out that your post rests on the assumption that military leads to the betterment of the species/individual humans.
  - cobrausn 13y ago
    Not that it does - just that it can. FWIW, I'm no war hawk, I generally consider myself an anti-war veteran.
sergiotapia 13y ago
Let's take this further with a thought I always like to spend time musing on from time to time: If we discover alient life within our galaxy, and years pass and we become friendly. What if another galaxy attacks ours, and we fight them. Galaxy vs. Galaxy. One side wins, the other falls in line and is absorbed in their ways. The we form one huge 'quadrant' in space. Another quadrant attacks us ad infinity. When does the tribal, us vs. they end? -Does- it end?
- makmanalp 13y ago
  The way I see it, conflict usually comes from means of profit, and limited resources. The universe is pretty damn big, and chances are once we're advanced enough to do space travel, there aren't going to be many resources in one place but not the other.
  - Myrth 13y ago
    Conflict may also come from misunderstanding. Imagine a civilization where individuals are blobs of goo, and their way to understand each other and procreate/mutate is to mix with each other. Now if they would encounter a human being and realize that it's sentient, they would try to understand it by trying to mix as they usually do. From human's perspective that would be an act of violence and would prompt immediate defense/offense.
- krapp 13y ago
  I'm reminded of H.P. Lovecraft: that we live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. There's a lot not to like about Lovecraft but I think he pegged humanity's role in the cosmic order pretty well (we wouldn't have one.) Any species capable of reaching our planet from another galaxy will be more than advanced enough to wipe us out without effort. If there's any sort of competition for resources or territory between aggressive civilizations operating at that scale and we find ourselves in the middle, we just lose. Our "fighting" them would be akin to termites "fighting" a steamroller flattening their mound.
MrZongle2 13y ago
Former soldier here: veteran of the first Gulf War. Was on the ground in Saudi, and during the push into Iraq when the ground war started. Pretty sure I didn't engage in any baby-killing, but thanks for furthering the stereotype. Edit: I specifically said "baby-killing" because this is the kind of slander thrown at my father's generation when they returned from Vietnam. Not all soldiers are killers, and to imply that they are is offensive. It's sad that I have to point this out.
- JTon 13y ago
  Was there an edit? I don't see any mention of baby-killing
- kevincrane 13y ago
  He didn't mention any sensationalist baby-killing in his post, but one common side effect of war, and by extension soldiers, is the killing of other humans right?
- kordless 13y ago
  I respect you and are grateful that you risked your life during your service for us. However, making false blaming statements isn't going to help your cause. Datsundere didn't say you killed babies. He said that soldiers kill people, which is a true statement. It's part of being a soldier, but it isn't necessarily the right thing to do moving forward for humanity. You personally aren't on the hook for this. You signed up for the military, took oaths to defend us (for which I am very grateful) and took orders from decision makers who may or may not have been influenced in their decisions to do the right thing. The rest of us have a right to voice those concerns and ask hard questions about the opportunity cost of warfare. That doesn't mean we're questioning the concept of chain of command. I hope our sons and daughters end up living in a world where risk is still ever present, but it is used for exploration and the furtherment of humanity, instead of fighting and killing each other over what will later be considered less important matters. Edit for fellow HNers: Voting down a soldier for expressing some emotion isn't cool. You don't have to apply (misweighted) negative karma to someone who is sharing an important experience of their life to make an impact in the conversation. +1 on the parent - listen to your fellow man, no matter what he is saying.