3 ms·

Sorry, I’ve been trying to be less cynical lately. If someone does something good I prefer to take it, not dig for nefarious motives.

by micampe 13y ago

MichaelGG 13y ago
That's probably a great life outlook to deal with individuals and probably helps your personal relationships. But it seems incredibly naive to give corporations the same treatment. Read the actual promise[1]. The promise only covers patent claims from Microsoft on those technologies, and only if you're not engaged in any patent lawsuit with them. So, if you're some random company that happens to encroach on Microsoft's territory in another area, but you happened to use Mono, they can strike at your usage of Mono due to your work in another area. Automotive? Health? Entertainment? "Social"? Telecommunications? Advertising? Resource planning? Imaging/mapping? Security? Aeronautics? Anything related to computing? All those and more are areas that Microsoft works on. I can't imagine any legal team being able to assert that their company will _never_ use Microsoft IP in any area - it's just too vast. Example: You use Mono to implement some coordination software for networking gear - that sounds "safe". Microsoft then publishes research and obtains patents on their own work on networking (already done) from Azure and MSR (or they buy some large dead company's portfolio). Microsoft now has IP all over your area of choice, and as soon as there's any fight, you lose your Promise over Mono and now have a ton more claims to defend. Oops. This isn't really even cynicism - it's spelled out very clearly in the promise. Edit: In the Google Android .NET issue: Yes, Google can go use .NET for Android, no problem. Until Google gets in a fight over a plethora of other patents (say, advertising or other phone related patents). At that point, Google loses its promise for Mono and MS has a lucrative ground to gain. Also, copyright issues are NOT included in the Community Promise. So MS still wins by making APIs copyrightable. They might extend the CP to cover copyright, but those copyright issues are still there as soon as someone fights MS over anything else. Totally strengthens MS's position. As far as .NET on Android - OF COURSE, MS won't "stop" that. That'd be a major win for MS and hurt Oracle/Java. The .NET port would fall under the agreement, but I've already demonstrated how quickly that agreement can roll back. Google adopting .NET is a good technical move, but gives MS a massive advantage. That said, app developers using MonoDroid are probably reasonably safe so long the apps they make are of relatively low strategic value to MS. If all of Google Play's apps were made on MonoDroid, Google would be in a terrible position. 1: http://www.microsoft.com/openspecifications/en/us/programs/community-promise/default.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/openspecifications/en/us/programs/c...

Sorry, I’ve been trying to be less cynical lately. If someone does something good I prefer to take it, not dig for nefarious motives.

by micampe 13y ago

Sorry, I’ve been trying to be less cynical lately. If someone does something good I prefer to take it, not dig for nefarious motives.

MichaelGG 13y ago

That's probably a great life outlook to deal with individuals and probably helps your personal relationships. But it seems incredibly naive to give corporations the same treatment. Read the actual promise[1]. The promise only covers patent claims from Microsoft on those technologies, and only if you're not engaged in any patent lawsuit with them. So, if you're some random company that happens to encroach on Microsoft's territory in another area, but you happened to use Mono, they can strike at your usage of Mono due to your work in another area. Automotive? Health? Entertainment? "Social"? Telecommunications? Advertising? Resource planning? Imaging/mapping? Security? Aeronautics? Anything related to computing? All those and more are areas that Microsoft works on. I can't imagine any legal team being able to assert that their company will _never_ use Microsoft IP in any area - it's just too vast. Example: You use Mono to implement some coordination software for networking gear - that sounds "safe". Microsoft then publishes research and obtains patents on their own work on networking (already done) from Azure and MSR (or they buy some large dead company's portfolio). Microsoft now has IP all over your area of choice, and as soon as there's any fight, you lose your Promise over Mono and now have a ton more claims to defend. Oops. This isn't really even cynicism - it's spelled out very clearly in the promise. Edit: In the Google Android .NET issue: Yes, Google can go use .NET for Android, no problem. Until Google gets in a fight over a plethora of other patents (say, advertising or other phone related patents). At that point, Google loses its promise for Mono and MS has a lucrative ground to gain. Also, copyright issues are NOT included in the Community Promise. So MS still wins by making APIs copyrightable. They might extend the CP to cover copyright, but those copyright issues are still there as soon as someone fights MS over anything else. Totally strengthens MS's position. As far as .NET on Android - OF COURSE, MS won't "stop" that. That'd be a major win for MS and hurt Oracle/Java. The .NET port would fall under the agreement, but I've already demonstrated how quickly that agreement can roll back. Google adopting .NET is a good technical move, but gives MS a massive advantage. That said, app developers using MonoDroid are probably reasonably safe so long the apps they make are of relatively low strategic value to MS. If all of Google Play's apps were made on MonoDroid, Google would be in a terrible position. 1: http://www.microsoft.com/openspecifications/en/us/programs/community-promise/default.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/openspecifications/en/us/programs/c...