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Google Maps does this. The only difference is that Google informs you before you turn on location services.

by judk 13y ago

rallison 13y ago
And therein lies the the big difference. I can opt out of Google's tracking in a number of ways. Secret tracking from the NSA? I will likely not even know it is happening, and if I do, opting out is likely to be slightly more difficult. This, of course, does not even touch upon what that tracking data may then be used for.
- privong 13y ago
  > I can opt out of Google's tracking in a number of ways. At face value, yes. But with the news that companies are tracking web users via browser fingerprints and other methods (even when users have "do not track" enabled), it seems that it is difficult to avoid being secretly tracked by corporations.
MrZongle2 13y ago
And that Google isn't limited by the Constitution in the ways that the Federal government supposedly is.
- ParkerK 13y ago
  >And that Google isn't limited by the Constitution I'm pretty sure it is...
  - lowkeykiwi 13y ago
    In what way? The Constitution creates the federal government and restricts it's actions.
  - wiredfool 13y ago
    Google is (modulo the corporation/person thingy) granted rights under the Constitution. The Constitution only limits Google to the extent that it's the basis for the system of laws that do the limiting.
    - CWuestefeld 13y ago
      Further semantic hairsplitting, perhaps: Not Google nor any other person is granted rights under the Constitution. Given the Natural Rights philosophy subscribed to by many of the founders, as described by John Locke and others, the rights of the people pre-exist, simply by virtue of their being people. The Constitution comes later. It describes a set of enumerated powers that the people have decided to cede to the government that they're creating. The way you describe it is the other way around from this.
  - swalkergibson 13y ago
    Not directly. Google is bound by the statutes enforced by the federal and state governments who are empowered by the Constitution to govern. That is why Google can censor its index to clear it of things it does not like, if it so desired. Additionally, it could establish that the official religion of Google is from here forth Pastafarianism and while that might run afoul of some workplace regulations in certain jurisdictions, there is nothing in the Constitution that prevents Google from doing so.
  - MrZongle2 13y ago
    Nope. If Google deletes your comments on a YouTube video, it's not a violation of the 1st Amendment. If Google employees take a good, long look at your email or the documents you have in Drive, it's not a violation of the Fourth.
nostromo 13y ago
It's not the only difference. Other differences that come to mind: Google has yet to kill people with drones or send people to torture prisons in Egypt.
- diminoten 13y ago
  The NSA doesn't run operations, so they didn't do either of these things either. It's a big government.
  - taproot 13y ago
    It sure is and if you think they have no ops i dont know what to tell you.
  - PavlovsCat 13y ago
    Yeah, and the soldiers don't make the orders, the generals don't make the politics, the politicians just try to keep the military industrial complex fat and snugly and the citizens happy, the citizens just crave security because that's what the media says is what citizens crave while the military industrial complex just seeks profit because it's required to by stockholders and everyone else involved, who are just trying to put food and/or yachts on their family. "Just doing my job" has been deprecated in 1945. For a reason, and finding out why the hard way is considered harmful.
    - CWuestefeld 13y ago
      So why is that in polite company, even those that are opposed to our various wars are obliged to toe the line, "we support our troops"? Even in 21st century America, we continue to fool ourselves, thinking that somehow soldiers can be noble, heroes even, all the while being engaged something that is immoral.
      - nitrogen 13y ago
        Perhaps because many of them are friends and family of said polite company who may have been persuaded to join with incomplete information, or lacked the economic resources to refuse to join when recruiters came calling.
_wmd 13y ago
Within GSM any interconnected network can query at least the country of any other network's customers' handsets. It's needed for routing roaming calls, but the data is generally quite easy accessible. There are many commercial services offering lookups (google "HLR lookup")
- Maxious 13y ago
  Triangulation as a Service has been around for a couple of years too http://developer.verizon.com/content/vdc/en/verizon-tools-apis/verizon_apis/network-api/faqs/napi_sup_lbs.html http://developer.verizon.com/content/vdc/en/verizon-tools-ap...

Google Maps does this. The only difference is that Google informs you before you turn on location services.

by judk 13y ago

Google Maps does this. The only difference is that Google informs you before you turn on location services.

And therein lies the the big difference. I can opt out of Google's tracking in a number of ways. Secret tracking from the NSA? I will likely not even know it is happening, and if I do, opting out is likely to be slightly more difficult. This, of course, does not even touch upon what that tracking data may then be used for.

privong 13y ago
> I can opt out of Google's tracking in a number of ways. At face value, yes. But with the news that companies are tracking web users via browser fingerprints and other methods (even when users have "do not track" enabled), it seems that it is difficult to avoid being secretly tracked by corporations.

MrZongle2 13y ago

And that Google isn't limited by the Constitution in the ways that the Federal government supposedly is.

ParkerK 13y ago
>And that Google isn't limited by the Constitution I'm pretty sure it is...
- lowkeykiwi 13y ago
  In what way? The Constitution creates the federal government and restricts it's actions.
- wiredfool 13y ago
  Google is (modulo the corporation/person thingy) granted rights under the Constitution. The Constitution only limits Google to the extent that it's the basis for the system of laws that do the limiting.
  - CWuestefeld 13y ago
    Further semantic hairsplitting, perhaps: Not Google nor any other person is granted rights under the Constitution. Given the Natural Rights philosophy subscribed to by many of the founders, as described by John Locke and others, the rights of the people pre-exist, simply by virtue of their being people. The Constitution comes later. It describes a set of enumerated powers that the people have decided to cede to the government that they're creating. The way you describe it is the other way around from this.
- swalkergibson 13y ago
  Not directly. Google is bound by the statutes enforced by the federal and state governments who are empowered by the Constitution to govern. That is why Google can censor its index to clear it of things it does not like, if it so desired. Additionally, it could establish that the official religion of Google is from here forth Pastafarianism and while that might run afoul of some workplace regulations in certain jurisdictions, there is nothing in the Constitution that prevents Google from doing so.
- MrZongle2 13y ago
  Nope. If Google deletes your comments on a YouTube video, it's not a violation of the 1st Amendment. If Google employees take a good, long look at your email or the documents you have in Drive, it's not a violation of the Fourth.

nostromo 13y ago

It's not the only difference. Other differences that come to mind: Google has yet to kill people with drones or send people to torture prisons in Egypt.

diminoten 13y ago
The NSA doesn't run operations, so they didn't do either of these things either. It's a big government.
- taproot 13y ago
  It sure is and if you think they have no ops i dont know what to tell you.
- PavlovsCat 13y ago
  Yeah, and the soldiers don't make the orders, the generals don't make the politics, the politicians just try to keep the military industrial complex fat and snugly and the citizens happy, the citizens just crave security because that's what the media says is what citizens crave while the military industrial complex just seeks profit because it's required to by stockholders and everyone else involved, who are just trying to put food and/or yachts on their family. "Just doing my job" has been deprecated in 1945. For a reason, and finding out why the hard way is considered harmful.
  - CWuestefeld 13y ago
    So why is that in polite company, even those that are opposed to our various wars are obliged to toe the line, "we support our troops"? Even in 21st century America, we continue to fool ourselves, thinking that somehow soldiers can be noble, heroes even, all the while being engaged something that is immoral.
    - nitrogen 13y ago
      Perhaps because many of them are friends and family of said polite company who may have been persuaded to join with incomplete information, or lacked the economic resources to refuse to join when recruiters came calling.

_wmd 13y ago

Within GSM any interconnected network can query at least the country of any other network's customers' handsets. It's needed for routing roaming calls, but the data is generally quite easy accessible. There are many commercial services offering lookups (google "HLR lookup")

Maxious 13y ago
Triangulation as a Service has been around for a couple of years too http://developer.verizon.com/content/vdc/en/verizon-tools-apis/verizon_apis/network-api/faqs/napi_sup_lbs.html http://developer.verizon.com/content/vdc/en/verizon-tools-ap...