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The problem is that grading serves two purposes that are at odds with each other: comparison within a group and comparison between groups. Harvard's grading sy

The problem is that grading serves two purposes that are at odds with each other: comparison within a group and comparison between groups. Harvard's grading system is useless to a student that is trying to figure out how they are ranking among their peers or whether their studying habits are increasing their performance. However, it's great when they're on the job market and their 4.0 GPA is better than the 2.9 GPA of Engineering State that still grades on a sharp curve. The increase in grade inflation has reflected the trend of college goers valuing extrinsic factors (get a better job) over intrinsic factors (learn more stuff). A solution to this problem would be to split the two grading systems apart, having one standardized, SAT style test at the end of college that would allow more accurate comparisons between schools while preserving GPA as a within school measure. In fact, it stuns me that the College Board hasn't positioned the GRE as this kind of service and pioneered some kind of aGPA score that would combine your college GPA with the relative performance of your college against all others.

rizzom5000 13y ago
> In fact, it stuns me that the College Board hasn't positioned the GRE as this kind of service.. The CS department at my alma mater did require the ETS Computer Science Field Exam for graduation. The results are interesting as you can compare your personal score against students from several dozen other universities as well as your department's score. All the noise about standardized testing aside, I think that this sort of thing should be required for anyone to get a degree. I've met far too many people with Master's degrees who seem easily confused by basic math and science. The fact that there aren't any measurable standards that go beyond the institutional level really dilutes the value of a degree.
bradleyjg 13y ago
One of the most interesting arguments against extreme grade inflation I've seen arose in the context of students considering going to grad school in a difficult field. Several professors in the conversation said they weren't comfortable with writing a recommendation or encouraging a particular student to go on to graduate work, but that it was difficult to convince these students that thhe weren't cut out for it after they had given them As in upper level courses. At my alma mater the grade A+ was used in some departments for this sort of purpose. It wasn't mandatory, and it didn't count towards GPA, sometimes no one got one at all, but it signaled something to the students who did. Separately I had one professor, in history of all things, who was a notoriously tough grader but was retiring the next semester after I had her. As a one time policy she issued two sets of grades, the one you deserved and the one she decided to give out to be in line with her colleagues. I was much prouder of the B in the first category than the A- in the second.
user1239321421 13y ago
I went to ETH Zurich, Switzerland for both my BSc and MSc degrees. The undergrad program that leads up to the BSc degree is ridiculously easy to get into (Swiss nationals even have to be accepted into the program by law AFAIK -- I'm not Swiss) but the first year of that program is so absolutely horrendously hard to survive (one massive set of 10 or so finals at the end of year 1) that you literally come out of your first year with five kilos off the scale and pale like a ghost (I'm Caucasian ... ?). At any rate, point being at ETH Zurich in particular and other European unis in general (again AFAIK) the goal is to survive and get your degree whichever way you can. Grade inflation at "top notch" American unis with their laughable grading standards, the constant availability of extra credit to push up your final grade at will, and the weird financial and social hurdles that applicants are presented with utterly confuse me. Speaking of which, tuition fees at ETH Zurich were 750 CHF per year (830 USD).
- rayiner 13y ago
  Top notch American universities have ridiculously easy grading standards because the filtering happens at the admissions stage. Harvard's undergrad has something like a 5-6% acceptance rate. Admission requires being on the ball since age 14 so you can apply with a perfect high school GPA, getting at least in the 98th percentile on the SATs, and doing a bunch of extracurricular and service projects while maintaining that perfect GPA. After that, the fact of whether you're smart and hard working is presumed. The grade inflation exists to make college a fun experience where you can try out different sorts of classes without prejudicing your chances at jobs and graduate school later.
  - secstate 13y ago
    At this point what is the logical argument for assigning grades during the four years of study, then? Why not simply rubber stamp a 3.9 GPA on everyone's curriculum vitae and call it a day? Oh wait ...
  - Edmond 13y ago
    I have always found it amusing that the virtue of hard work is bestowed on kids who make it into the most selective American colleges. Another way to look at it is that, it is precisely hard work that these kids(or at least their parents on their behalf)are trying to avoid. In other words while the rest of us will have to slug it hard until the moment of death (quite literally for many), once you enter a school like Harvard it's all gravy for the rest of your life. Basically put in about five years of hard work to get into Harvard and live a cushy life from then on, sweet deal indeed. I have meet people who went to Harvard and the kind of accommodation they get is mind blowing to a state-school Joe like me. I dated a girl who was interning in DC a couple years back from Harvard law school, she had the whole summer to turn in what was a five page paper. Mean while I had to write 10+ page papers practically every week in b-school at a public school and if I missed the due date, the penalty can be anything from losing some points to getting no points.
ryanhuff 13y ago
One way to approach this problem is to have accreditation bodies require a more equitable distribution across the student body.

rizzom5000 13y ago

> In fact, it stuns me that the College Board hasn't positioned the GRE as this kind of service.. The CS department at my alma mater did require the ETS Computer Science Field Exam for graduation. The results are interesting as you can compare your personal score against students from several dozen other universities as well as your department's score. All the noise about standardized testing aside, I think that this sort of thing should be required for anyone to get a degree. I've met far too many people with Master's degrees who seem easily confused by basic math and science. The fact that there aren't any measurable standards that go beyond the institutional level really dilutes the value of a degree.

bradleyjg 13y ago

One of the most interesting arguments against extreme grade inflation I've seen arose in the context of students considering going to grad school in a difficult field. Several professors in the conversation said they weren't comfortable with writing a recommendation or encouraging a particular student to go on to graduate work, but that it was difficult to convince these students that thhe weren't cut out for it after they had given them As in upper level courses. At my alma mater the grade A+ was used in some departments for this sort of purpose. It wasn't mandatory, and it didn't count towards GPA, sometimes no one got one at all, but it signaled something to the students who did. Separately I had one professor, in history of all things, who was a notoriously tough grader but was retiring the next semester after I had her. As a one time policy she issued two sets of grades, the one you deserved and the one she decided to give out to be in line with her colleagues. I was much prouder of the B in the first category than the A- in the second.

user1239321421 13y ago

I went to ETH Zurich, Switzerland for both my BSc and MSc degrees. The undergrad program that leads up to the BSc degree is ridiculously easy to get into (Swiss nationals even have to be accepted into the program by law AFAIK -- I'm not Swiss) but the first year of that program is so absolutely horrendously hard to survive (one massive set of 10 or so finals at the end of year 1) that you literally come out of your first year with five kilos off the scale and pale like a ghost (I'm Caucasian ... ?). At any rate, point being at ETH Zurich in particular and other European unis in general (again AFAIK) the goal is to survive and get your degree whichever way you can. Grade inflation at "top notch" American unis with their laughable grading standards, the constant availability of extra credit to push up your final grade at will, and the weird financial and social hurdles that applicants are presented with utterly confuse me. Speaking of which, tuition fees at ETH Zurich were 750 CHF per year (830 USD).

rayiner 13y ago
Top notch American universities have ridiculously easy grading standards because the filtering happens at the admissions stage. Harvard's undergrad has something like a 5-6% acceptance rate. Admission requires being on the ball since age 14 so you can apply with a perfect high school GPA, getting at least in the 98th percentile on the SATs, and doing a bunch of extracurricular and service projects while maintaining that perfect GPA. After that, the fact of whether you're smart and hard working is presumed. The grade inflation exists to make college a fun experience where you can try out different sorts of classes without prejudicing your chances at jobs and graduate school later.
- secstate 13y ago
  At this point what is the logical argument for assigning grades during the four years of study, then? Why not simply rubber stamp a 3.9 GPA on everyone's curriculum vitae and call it a day? Oh wait ...
- Edmond 13y ago
  I have always found it amusing that the virtue of hard work is bestowed on kids who make it into the most selective American colleges. Another way to look at it is that, it is precisely hard work that these kids(or at least their parents on their behalf)are trying to avoid. In other words while the rest of us will have to slug it hard until the moment of death (quite literally for many), once you enter a school like Harvard it's all gravy for the rest of your life. Basically put in about five years of hard work to get into Harvard and live a cushy life from then on, sweet deal indeed. I have meet people who went to Harvard and the kind of accommodation they get is mind blowing to a state-school Joe like me. I dated a girl who was interning in DC a couple years back from Harvard law school, she had the whole summer to turn in what was a five page paper. Mean while I had to write 10+ page papers practically every week in b-school at a public school and if I missed the due date, the penalty can be anything from losing some points to getting no points.

ryanhuff 13y ago

One way to approach this problem is to have accreditation bodies require a more equitable distribution across the student body.