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People often hold compulsory education in the same esteem as at-will employment, analyzing it as though it were the student's "job," agreed. education lags 25

People often hold compulsory education in the same esteem as at-will employment, analyzing it as though it were the student's "job," agreed. education lags 25+ years behind the realities of being a productive member of society.

gaius 17y ago
On another thread, I mentioned that there was a myth that all degrees are equally worthwhile, that the subject didn't matter because really you were "learning to learn". Now that's obviously complete nonsense, so where could it have come from? But that's obvious too: it comes from teachers, who themselves did some random artsy degree, then their teacher training, and having never had an industrial job, really believe it themselves. I'd like there to be a minimum age for teaching, say 50 or 60, so that we don't get kids (in the sense of experience of the real world) teaching kids. That'd neatly solve the ageism problem too, it would be normal to work in industry for 30-40 years, then go into teaching until you feel like retiring.
- DanielBMarkham 17y ago
  Over the past few years I have become convinced that some endeavors, like philosophy or teaching, really only work with older people. There's just too much frame-of-reference stuff that is required to do these well.
- scott_s 17y ago
  Hiring teachers is a beggars-can't-be-choosers situation. Starting pay is relatively low, stress is high.
  - gaius 17y ago
    Job security is very high, the pension scheme is very good, you get the summer off. There are much worse jobs than teaching.
    - scott_s 17y ago
      There certainly are. But not many people choose to go into it, and you're suggesting limiting that pool even more.
      - tokenadult 17y ago
        The number of people credentialed to be teachers in the United States is something close to double the number of people currently working as teachers. What's sad is that studies of teacher competency http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/3506971.html http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/3506971.html tend to show that the best teachers get squeezed out of the occupation the most rapidly, with lousier teachers hanging on to enjoy the job security and other nonsalary benefits. And probably at present the lack of attraction of (public sector) teaching to some job applicants results from the known low quality of many workers in that sector.
  - billswift 17y ago
    Starting pay is pretty damn high for what they have to do and the teachers' general competence level.
- nazgulnarsil 17y ago
  I couldn't agree more. The quality difference between my artsy professors and my semi-retired from industry professors is so stark as to be comical. There is no substitute for understanding exactly why something is important to learn.

gaius 17y ago

On another thread, I mentioned that there was a myth that all degrees are equally worthwhile, that the subject didn't matter because really you were "learning to learn". Now that's obviously complete nonsense, so where could it have come from? But that's obvious too: it comes from teachers, who themselves did some random artsy degree, then their teacher training, and having never had an industrial job, really believe it themselves. I'd like there to be a minimum age for teaching, say 50 or 60, so that we don't get kids (in the sense of experience of the real world) teaching kids. That'd neatly solve the ageism problem too, it would be normal to work in industry for 30-40 years, then go into teaching until you feel like retiring.

DanielBMarkham 17y ago
Over the past few years I have become convinced that some endeavors, like philosophy or teaching, really only work with older people. There's just too much frame-of-reference stuff that is required to do these well.
scott_s 17y ago
Hiring teachers is a beggars-can't-be-choosers situation. Starting pay is relatively low, stress is high.
- gaius 17y ago
  Job security is very high, the pension scheme is very good, you get the summer off. There are much worse jobs than teaching.
  - scott_s 17y ago
    There certainly are. But not many people choose to go into it, and you're suggesting limiting that pool even more.
    - tokenadult 17y ago
      The number of people credentialed to be teachers in the United States is something close to double the number of people currently working as teachers. What's sad is that studies of teacher competency http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/3506971.html http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/3506971.html tend to show that the best teachers get squeezed out of the occupation the most rapidly, with lousier teachers hanging on to enjoy the job security and other nonsalary benefits. And probably at present the lack of attraction of (public sector) teaching to some job applicants results from the known low quality of many workers in that sector.
- billswift 17y ago
  Starting pay is pretty damn high for what they have to do and the teachers' general competence level.
nazgulnarsil 17y ago
I couldn't agree more. The quality difference between my artsy professors and my semi-retired from industry professors is so stark as to be comical. There is no substitute for understanding exactly why something is important to learn.