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I'm curious what the user base of gaming focused users in for linux world wide. Linux tends to attract developers rather than users who spend a great deal of mo

I'm curious what the user base of gaming focused users in for linux world wide. Linux tends to attract developers rather than users who spend a great deal of money on their gaming hobby. Perhaps I am wrong. Don't get me wrong, I'd love this to work, but it seems like a bit of a stretch to say it will work better than a platform that is already successful at getting people to spend money on games (see Mac App Store, iOS). >You sound like an iOS developer. It's not like every Windows PC has the same screen resolution and hardware, yet it's the biggest gaming platform... This coming from the guy who just told someone their problem is that they are running Linux Mint...

Mikeb85 13y ago
> I'm curious what the user base of gaming focused users in for linux world wide. Linux tends to attract developers rather than users who spend a great deal of money on their gaming hobby. Perhaps I am wrong. I'd wager a good portion of Linux devs are gamers, and likely just dual-boot, have a console, an iPad, etc... Seeing as how the barrier to using Linux is lower than either Windows or OSX, it doesn't really matter how many users currently use it, as much as how many will in the future... > Don't get me wrong, I'd love this to work, but it seems like a bit of a stretch to say it will work better than a platform that is already successful at getting people to spend money on games (see Mac App Store, iOS). As we like to say in trading, past performance doesn't guarantee future results... In any case, if you look at something like Humble Bundle, Linux total revenue almost always beats OSX revenue in Humble Bundle sales... > This coming from the guy who just told someone their problem is that they are running Linux Mint... Isn't it though? If a program works on every single other distro...
- gareim 13y ago
  Barrier to using Linux is not lower than Windows. Windows comes installed on almost every PC sold. Linux does not. Therefore more work is required to use Linux. I love Linux, but "if a program works on every single other distro.." is disingenuous. I have not once had 100% success with Linux on initial install. There has always been something that needed to be tweaked (usually sound or graphics). No, Windows isn't 100% either, but it's more like 98% while Linux is like 92%. For the majority of people, that 6% difference matters. Gaming on Linux still needs to catch up. NVidia Optimus support is still being worked on. Most platforms don't ship with the proprietary drivers, which are the ones that are actually good for gaming. And from what I hear, the OSS AMD drivers are good at power management while they suck at gaming and flipped for the proprietary ones. AMD also has a problem where they drop support for cards relatively quickly. I love Linux so much (Crunchbang, baby) but it's so fragmented that unless things change, gaming on Windows is going to stay easier. I don't see any reason why my family would give up Windows with its large library of games and all that support for Linux with its tiny library and not up to par drivers. That might not work on that distro without some workaround.
  - adamors 13y ago
    > Windows comes installed on almost every PC sold. Linux does not. Therefore more work is required to use Linux. Keep in mind that most people who play games (and I'm not talking about Angry Birds or Facebook games but people who use Steam) tend to build their own PCs. And installing Linux is just as easy as installing Windows, if not easier (you won't have to go on a driver hunt most of the time for instance).
    - reubenmorais 13y ago
      > Keep in mind that most people who play games (and I'm not talking about Angry Birds or Facebook games but people who use Steam) tend to build their own PCs. Do you have a source for this?
      - adamors 13y ago
        Visit gaming forums, Steam discussion boards, Reddit etc.
        Touche 13y ago
        To be fair you're not describing "people who play games", you're describing gaming enthusiasts.
        adamors 13y ago
        I know, but IMO the bar is really low. If you have 10+ games in Steam you're pretty much an enthusiasts. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm mad about games ever since I played the first Doom on my father's 486. In my view you're either a layperson who plays Candy Crush or iOS games or you know about Steam and GOG and the sky is the limit.
        derefr 13y ago
        I think the sticking point is assuming that "likes playing games" and "cares about super-amazing graphics" go hand-in-hand. You don't need a gaming rig for Dwarf Fortress. :)
adamors 13y ago
Another thing that is not mentioned, is that Steam on OS X is kinda bad. Tends to freeze often etc. In the case of Linux, Valve has the incentive to ship a better version because they'd be running that version on their Steamboxes as well.
aclevernickname 13y ago
>This coming from the guy who just told someone their problem is that they are running Linux Mint... Nice Ad Hominem [1] you threw out there. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
- stinkytaco 13y ago
  I don't see ad hominem. He explicitly stated that fragmentation would not be an issue for gaming on Linux, and then in response to someone saying that Steam didn't work, he said "Well, that's because you're running Linux Mint". That sounds to me like a fragmentation problem. I'm not attacking him personally, I'm pointing out that he literally just used fragmentation as an excuse for why something didn't work while at the same time claiming it's not an issue.
  - aclevernickname 13y ago
    Yes, and if you'd read anywhere else in the thread, You'd find that the Linux Mint issue does not happen because there's a package in the LM16 repositories for steam. Which means that the entire issue of LM not running steam is moot. Which means there is no fragmentation issue in Linux as related to steam. Which means we're left with your Ad Hominem, which you don't see.
    - stinkytaco 13y ago
      > Yes, and if you'd read anywhere else in the thread, You'd find that the Linux Mint issue does not happen because there's a package in the LM16 repositories for steam. Which means that the entire issue of LM not running steam is moot. Which means there is no fragmentation issue in Linux as related to steam. I don't follow this argument. 1. Linux Mint is Linux. People who run it say "I'm running linux." 2. Linux Mint does not run steam. People who run it say "Steam doesn't work on Linux Mint". 3. This means that the linux market is fragmented. You can't just exclude Mint from linux for some arbitrary reasons. It's linux and it doesn't run steam. And Mint is hardly alone. It's very much like android, there's a huge number of possible issues developers need to contend with. This doesn't mean it's a failure, it means that the cost of doing business will be higher than with the relatively controlled Windows ecosystem or the even more controlled console market.
jebblue 13y ago
>> Linux tends to attract developers rather than users who spend a great deal of money on their gaming hobby. Gamers want fun. Gamers don't really care what's underneath. There was a time, back before the illegal deals of Gates when any gamer you talked to would literally laugh out loud at you at the thought of paying serious money for any game not on DOS - meaning Windows.

Mikeb85 13y ago

> I'm curious what the user base of gaming focused users in for linux world wide. Linux tends to attract developers rather than users who spend a great deal of money on their gaming hobby. Perhaps I am wrong. I'd wager a good portion of Linux devs are gamers, and likely just dual-boot, have a console, an iPad, etc... Seeing as how the barrier to using Linux is lower than either Windows or OSX, it doesn't really matter how many users currently use it, as much as how many will in the future... > Don't get me wrong, I'd love this to work, but it seems like a bit of a stretch to say it will work better than a platform that is already successful at getting people to spend money on games (see Mac App Store, iOS). As we like to say in trading, past performance doesn't guarantee future results... In any case, if you look at something like Humble Bundle, Linux total revenue almost always beats OSX revenue in Humble Bundle sales... > This coming from the guy who just told someone their problem is that they are running Linux Mint... Isn't it though? If a program works on every single other distro...

gareim 13y ago
Barrier to using Linux is not lower than Windows. Windows comes installed on almost every PC sold. Linux does not. Therefore more work is required to use Linux. I love Linux, but "if a program works on every single other distro.." is disingenuous. I have not once had 100% success with Linux on initial install. There has always been something that needed to be tweaked (usually sound or graphics). No, Windows isn't 100% either, but it's more like 98% while Linux is like 92%. For the majority of people, that 6% difference matters. Gaming on Linux still needs to catch up. NVidia Optimus support is still being worked on. Most platforms don't ship with the proprietary drivers, which are the ones that are actually good for gaming. And from what I hear, the OSS AMD drivers are good at power management while they suck at gaming and flipped for the proprietary ones. AMD also has a problem where they drop support for cards relatively quickly. I love Linux so much (Crunchbang, baby) but it's so fragmented that unless things change, gaming on Windows is going to stay easier. I don't see any reason why my family would give up Windows with its large library of games and all that support for Linux with its tiny library and not up to par drivers. That might not work on that distro without some workaround.
- adamors 13y ago
  > Windows comes installed on almost every PC sold. Linux does not. Therefore more work is required to use Linux. Keep in mind that most people who play games (and I'm not talking about Angry Birds or Facebook games but people who use Steam) tend to build their own PCs. And installing Linux is just as easy as installing Windows, if not easier (you won't have to go on a driver hunt most of the time for instance).
  - reubenmorais 13y ago
    > Keep in mind that most people who play games (and I'm not talking about Angry Birds or Facebook games but people who use Steam) tend to build their own PCs. Do you have a source for this?
    - adamors 13y ago
      Visit gaming forums, Steam discussion boards, Reddit etc.
      - Touche 13y ago
        To be fair you're not describing "people who play games", you're describing gaming enthusiasts.
        adamors 13y ago
        I know, but IMO the bar is really low. If you have 10+ games in Steam you're pretty much an enthusiasts. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm mad about games ever since I played the first Doom on my father's 486. In my view you're either a layperson who plays Candy Crush or iOS games or you know about Steam and GOG and the sky is the limit.
        derefr 13y ago
        I think the sticking point is assuming that "likes playing games" and "cares about super-amazing graphics" go hand-in-hand. You don't need a gaming rig for Dwarf Fortress. :)

adamors 13y ago

Another thing that is not mentioned, is that Steam on OS X is kinda bad. Tends to freeze often etc. In the case of Linux, Valve has the incentive to ship a better version because they'd be running that version on their Steamboxes as well.

aclevernickname 13y ago

>This coming from the guy who just told someone their problem is that they are running Linux Mint... Nice Ad Hominem [1] you threw out there. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

stinkytaco 13y ago
I don't see ad hominem. He explicitly stated that fragmentation would not be an issue for gaming on Linux, and then in response to someone saying that Steam didn't work, he said "Well, that's because you're running Linux Mint". That sounds to me like a fragmentation problem. I'm not attacking him personally, I'm pointing out that he literally just used fragmentation as an excuse for why something didn't work while at the same time claiming it's not an issue.
- aclevernickname 13y ago
  Yes, and if you'd read anywhere else in the thread, You'd find that the Linux Mint issue does not happen because there's a package in the LM16 repositories for steam. Which means that the entire issue of LM not running steam is moot. Which means there is no fragmentation issue in Linux as related to steam. Which means we're left with your Ad Hominem, which you don't see.
  - stinkytaco 13y ago
    > Yes, and if you'd read anywhere else in the thread, You'd find that the Linux Mint issue does not happen because there's a package in the LM16 repositories for steam. Which means that the entire issue of LM not running steam is moot. Which means there is no fragmentation issue in Linux as related to steam. I don't follow this argument. 1. Linux Mint is Linux. People who run it say "I'm running linux." 2. Linux Mint does not run steam. People who run it say "Steam doesn't work on Linux Mint". 3. This means that the linux market is fragmented. You can't just exclude Mint from linux for some arbitrary reasons. It's linux and it doesn't run steam. And Mint is hardly alone. It's very much like android, there's a huge number of possible issues developers need to contend with. This doesn't mean it's a failure, it means that the cost of doing business will be higher than with the relatively controlled Windows ecosystem or the even more controlled console market.

jebblue 13y ago

>> Linux tends to attract developers rather than users who spend a great deal of money on their gaming hobby. Gamers want fun. Gamers don't really care what's underneath. There was a time, back before the illegal deals of Gates when any gamer you talked to would literally laugh out loud at you at the thought of paying serious money for any game not on DOS - meaning Windows.