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A voice of reason. I've had too much personal experience with bad companies and bad interviewing processes for my own good. I think that #3 is spot on. Most co
by antjanus 13y ago
A voice of reason. I've had too much personal experience with bad companies and bad interviewing processes for my own good.
I think that #3 is spot on. Most companies AREN'T that special snowflake. Just like I would not tolerate a company with ridiculous demands, I imagine a company would not tolerate me. I'm not a snowflake, neither are they. This is a business negotiation between two parties.
As far as "what is appropriate", you're spot on, too. I'd just like to add on some details per point from what I've seen:
1. you can easily tell when a project is just NOT theirs. I've heard of people (from hiring managers that interviewed them) that copy (not fork!) someone else's projects and slap their name on it. If you're a programmer, you should see these stick out. If you're still concerned, go talk to them about the project. You'll learn a lot about their knowledge.
2. Exactly. Just like you would not ask a mathematician to calculate if a train with thirty tons of coal is going at the speed of 70mph from NY to LA, and another train with sixty tons of radioactive material is going the opposite direction at 230 mph but accelerating at 3 mph...you know what I mean.
3. This is the best point. You'll quickly find if someone IS or IS NOT knowledgeable about a subject. Not just by talking about the "top article on HN!" or some brand new framework, but having a conversation about work, problems they've encountered and how they've solved them, how they like to work etc. You learn not just about the person but a lot about their experience.
4. i've never really seen probationary employment in practice but companies seem willing to do contract work or contract-to-full-time type deals. Sounds very similar
5. Spot on. I find these annoying however, because I've been in a situation where I had 3 projects like these to finish. All of them small 2-4 hour projects but all to do over the weekend. I guess it wasn't that much of a big deal in the end and I do prefer this to any other type of "test".
- girvo 13y agoProbationary employment is guaranteed for the most part here in Aus. Takes the risk out somewhat for both parties, especially considering it's harder to fire.
- antjanus 13y agoWell, there is a probationary period here (US) too but it doesn't make much sense employing 20 developers just to figure out which one you want to join full time.
- infinite8s 13y agoProbationary also pretty much guarantees that you won't find the best programmers.
- antjanus 13y agonot necessarily. I completely expect the initial 30-60 days to be in that transitional/probationary timeframe (could also mean I'm not among the `best programmers`). But to each his own.