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Slightly (only slightly) off-topic: what is it going to take for us to see a complete or at least large overhaul of the justice system in the US? We're incarcer

Slightly (only slightly) off-topic: what is it going to take for us to see a complete or at least large overhaul of the justice system in the US? We're incarcerating too many people for minor crimes and it is causing a ripple effect on poverty and economic growth (not to mention ruining TONS of people's lives).

lobo_tuerto 13y ago
And not to mention enriching some people through wrong means.
melling 13y ago
Can you be more specific? What minor crimes are you talking about? What's the breakdown of crimes for the the current prison population? Have any references to articles that have a deeper discussion so we can come up to speed?
- girvo 13y ago
  Frankly, if you've got the highest per capita incarceration rate in the entire world, and is nearly 7X that of countries that are other first-world democracies (Canada, Australia, etc)... something tells me there is an issue, somewhere.
  - melling 13y ago
    That in itself doesn't mean that we have a problem. Maybe we are better at catching criminals? Maybe we have more criminals? I'm trying to go through what little material that has been provided here. Here's one example as to why we have a higher rate. We have longer sentencing. Do you think we should reduce the length of our sentences for burglary, for instance? "To give an example, the average burglary sentence in the United States is 16 months, compared to 5 months in Canada and 7 months in England" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rat...
    - brianbreslin 13y ago
      well someone caught with a tiny amount of crack cocaine is sentenced to (I'm paraphrasing since I am on my phone, don't have the stats) like 90 days vs 30 for cocaine. Alternatively I think there should be more emphasis on rehab. Real rehabilitation programs, mandatory drug rehab for even first time drug offenders perhaps.
- aestra 13y ago
  It is well know the US has the highest rate of incarceration in the world. Both per capita and by sheer numbers. All the breakdown you can ever ask for is here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_Sta... This part is what people are usually talking about: Violent crime was not responsible for the quadrupling of the incarcerated population in the United States from 1980 to 2003. Violent crime rates had been relatively constant or declining over those decades. The prison population was increased primarily by public policy changes causing more prison sentences and lengthening time served, e.g. through mandatory minimum sentencing, "three strikes" laws, and reductions in the availability of parole or early release. These policies were championed as protecting the public from serious and violent offenders, but instead yielded high rates of confinement for nonviolent offenders. Nearly three quarters of new admissions to state prison were convicted of nonviolent crimes. 49 percent of sentenced state inmates were held for violent offenses. Perhaps the single greatest force behind the growth of the prison population has been the national "war on drugs." The number of incarcerated drug offenders has increased twelvefold since 1980. In 2000, 22 percent of those in federal and state prisons were convicted on drug charges.
  - melling 13y ago
    Burglary, and theft in general, is a non-violent crime. If you're caught 3 times for that, shouldn't the punishment be more severe? Similarly, selling heroin is a non-violent crime. It would be helpful to see a more detailed breakdown on the effects of the "war on crime." By the way, I understand that the "three strikes" laws have had some unintended consequences and should be revisited.
    - aestra 13y ago
      I don't have an opinion on either, I am just presenting what most people talk about when they speak about the rising prison population of the United States. It can be a snowball effect as well, putting people in prison early for say, drug use at a young age, creates a prison culture, where the person keeps going back to prison. If that person didn't go to prison in the first place they might not be put in a position to keep breaking the law. This is all really a guess on my part, but I feel that it might be the case.

lobo_tuerto 13y ago

And not to mention enriching some people through wrong means.

melling 13y ago

Can you be more specific? What minor crimes are you talking about? What's the breakdown of crimes for the the current prison population? Have any references to articles that have a deeper discussion so we can come up to speed?

girvo 13y ago
Frankly, if you've got the highest per capita incarceration rate in the entire world, and is nearly 7X that of countries that are other first-world democracies (Canada, Australia, etc)... something tells me there is an issue, somewhere.
- melling 13y ago
  That in itself doesn't mean that we have a problem. Maybe we are better at catching criminals? Maybe we have more criminals? I'm trying to go through what little material that has been provided here. Here's one example as to why we have a higher rate. We have longer sentencing. Do you think we should reduce the length of our sentences for burglary, for instance? "To give an example, the average burglary sentence in the United States is 16 months, compared to 5 months in Canada and 7 months in England" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rat...
  - brianbreslin 13y ago
    well someone caught with a tiny amount of crack cocaine is sentenced to (I'm paraphrasing since I am on my phone, don't have the stats) like 90 days vs 30 for cocaine. Alternatively I think there should be more emphasis on rehab. Real rehabilitation programs, mandatory drug rehab for even first time drug offenders perhaps.
aestra 13y ago
It is well know the US has the highest rate of incarceration in the world. Both per capita and by sheer numbers. All the breakdown you can ever ask for is here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_Sta... This part is what people are usually talking about: Violent crime was not responsible for the quadrupling of the incarcerated population in the United States from 1980 to 2003. Violent crime rates had been relatively constant or declining over those decades. The prison population was increased primarily by public policy changes causing more prison sentences and lengthening time served, e.g. through mandatory minimum sentencing, "three strikes" laws, and reductions in the availability of parole or early release. These policies were championed as protecting the public from serious and violent offenders, but instead yielded high rates of confinement for nonviolent offenders. Nearly three quarters of new admissions to state prison were convicted of nonviolent crimes. 49 percent of sentenced state inmates were held for violent offenses. Perhaps the single greatest force behind the growth of the prison population has been the national "war on drugs." The number of incarcerated drug offenders has increased twelvefold since 1980. In 2000, 22 percent of those in federal and state prisons were convicted on drug charges.
- melling 13y ago
  Burglary, and theft in general, is a non-violent crime. If you're caught 3 times for that, shouldn't the punishment be more severe? Similarly, selling heroin is a non-violent crime. It would be helpful to see a more detailed breakdown on the effects of the "war on crime." By the way, I understand that the "three strikes" laws have had some unintended consequences and should be revisited.
  - aestra 13y ago
    I don't have an opinion on either, I am just presenting what most people talk about when they speak about the rising prison population of the United States. It can be a snowball effect as well, putting people in prison early for say, drug use at a young age, creates a prison culture, where the person keeps going back to prison. If that person didn't go to prison in the first place they might not be put in a position to keep breaking the law. This is all really a guess on my part, but I feel that it might be the case.