10 ms·

What's broken about it?

by ds_ 13y ago

Yuioup 13y ago
Video, sound, competing standards (which will hinder adoption), antiquated X11. Also when a full-screen X11 overlay (like a game) freezes then the whole desktop freezes (CTRL+ALT+F1 doesn't help). A Linux enthousiast will forgive these mistakes and find a way around them but Linux noobs wouldn't know what to do.
- nly 13y ago
  I'm not sure what you mean about video and sound. OpenGL is first class on Linux distros, sound is almost exclusively pulseaudio now...and X11 is on its way out, hopefully it'll be dead to most desktop users within a small number of years.
  - Yuioup 13y ago
    Video on dual-screen setups is a bit wonky. Yes it's my fault for using crappy proprietary ATI drivers but try to explain that to someone new to Linux. I have two issues with sound: 1) Sticking my headphone connector to my laptop's headphone jack does not work. I have to reboot in order to get headphone sound (works on Windows). 2) Connecting my PC to my TV via HDMI and playing a YouTube video ... Last time I heard a scratchy sound like that was when I tried to play a heavily damaged 45" record on my parent's turntable back in the early 80s.
    - VintageCool 13y ago
      For the headphones issue, try using pavucontrol. It allowed me to direct audio output to headphones or speakers on an app-by-app basis. Alternatively, it's possible that you might need to reload pulseaudio after plugging in the headphones.
    - dmix 13y ago
      I'm curious when the last time you tried Linux was? I used to have these issues in 2011 which is why I stuck with OSX, but now I use Linux exclusively because these problems are non-existent now.
- cLeEOGPw 13y ago
  Even if they would know what to do, it would still be something you wouldn't have to do on Windows, so anyone who is agnostic to what OS he is using and chooses based on practical criteria and not ideology or philosophy, will most often choose Windows over Linux. Linux experience just isn't there (would like to add "yet", but I don't see it even moving in that direction). I said this before and I'm gonna say again - Linux forces user to learn about OS and computer in general, which is not needed for most of people.
  - jebblue 13y ago
    >> Linux forces user to learn about OS and computer in general, which is not needed for most of people. My wife switched in one summer night in 2007, she hasn't looked back, she's a casual user, her laptop came from Dell with Ubuntu pre-installed. I guarantee you, she is the typical, non-techie user.
    - cLeEOGPw 13y ago
      Because it was pre-installed. Everything was already set up by an expert. Let her install a fresh copy and see how it goes. Then let her install windows on same machine and see the difference.
- phaemon 13y ago
  > antiquated X11 What does that mean? X11R7.7 was only released last year! How is that antiquated?
  - Yuioup 13y ago
    Wayland is being developed to specifically replace X11 the latter being based on antiquated principles.
    - binarycrusader 13y ago
      The vast majority of successful software is arguably based on antiquated principles. People seem to continually blame X11 as the source of all of Linux's woes, completely ignoring the history of computing. Most high-end workstations were UNIX-based at one time, and the graphical interface ran on X11. People forget that Photoshop, Internet Explorer, and Adobe Acrobat Reader used to be produced for UNIX and UNIX-like systems. X11 is not the primary issue at hand with Linux; nVidia has proven that repeatedly. At most, I'd be willing to agree that X11 is not optimally architected for local rendering context, but again, I don't think that's going to make the huge difference that people seem to imply.
    - phaemon 13y ago
      You've just given me a fact I'm already well aware of ("Wayland is being developed...") and then restated that X11 is antiquated, but you've never given me a reason why you think that. Do you actually know, or are you just repeating something you read somewhere but didn't really understand?
      - Yuioup 13y ago
        Okay fair enough. No I don't know. It's just what I heard. From what I have understood in the limited knowledge I have of X11, it seems to have no true full screen support, unnecessary layering due to it's legacy client-server architecture and ugly hacks. Clearly you're passionate about X11 and I would like to hear why it is not antiquated.
- jebblue 13y ago
  Your data seems like, off. Ctrl+Alt+F1 does indeed give you a nice way to kill the game. On Windows, you have to hit power reset and hope you don't lose anything important.
venomsnake 13y ago
Well linux have 10 main desktop managers that are under development right now. Each and every one of them does roughly 80% of what I want from a desktop. And I have uncomfortable experience on all.
- girvo 13y ago
  I know that feeling. Thankfully, thats why I recently decided to get my hands dirty and help :)
- andyroid 13y ago
  Sounds great to me! My girlfriend's Windows 8.1 laptop does about 50% of what I want from a desktop. My work provisioned MacBook Air and OS X does about 70% of what I want from a desktop.
- subsection1h 13y ago
  What's a desktop manager? I know about desktop environments, of which there seem to be 4-5 for Linux, and I know about window managers, of which there are many, thankfully. Please list the "10 main desktop managers" so I can familiarize myself with them. Thanks.
  - adamors 13y ago
    Haha, you've gotta love these armchair Linux critics man.
    - venomsnake 13y ago
      Indeed, call a person that sincerely tries for the last 3 months to move to Linux as a daily driver armchair critic. I could live with slightly wooden DE, I could live with the fact that my speakers are buzzing while there are phones connected. The only real dealbreaker is lack of decent file search in Linux. I want something that delivers the speed of search of Everything and has realtime update. No luck so far.
      - 13y ago

What's broken about it?

by ds_ 13y ago

What's broken about it?

Video, sound, competing standards (which will hinder adoption), antiquated X11. Also when a full-screen X11 overlay (like a game) freezes then the whole desktop freezes (CTRL+ALT+F1 doesn't help). A Linux enthousiast will forgive these mistakes and find a way around them but Linux noobs wouldn't know what to do.

nly 13y ago
I'm not sure what you mean about video and sound. OpenGL is first class on Linux distros, sound is almost exclusively pulseaudio now...and X11 is on its way out, hopefully it'll be dead to most desktop users within a small number of years.
- Yuioup 13y ago
  Video on dual-screen setups is a bit wonky. Yes it's my fault for using crappy proprietary ATI drivers but try to explain that to someone new to Linux. I have two issues with sound: 1) Sticking my headphone connector to my laptop's headphone jack does not work. I have to reboot in order to get headphone sound (works on Windows). 2) Connecting my PC to my TV via HDMI and playing a YouTube video ... Last time I heard a scratchy sound like that was when I tried to play a heavily damaged 45" record on my parent's turntable back in the early 80s.
  - VintageCool 13y ago
    For the headphones issue, try using pavucontrol. It allowed me to direct audio output to headphones or speakers on an app-by-app basis. Alternatively, it's possible that you might need to reload pulseaudio after plugging in the headphones.
  - dmix 13y ago
    I'm curious when the last time you tried Linux was? I used to have these issues in 2011 which is why I stuck with OSX, but now I use Linux exclusively because these problems are non-existent now.
cLeEOGPw 13y ago
Even if they would know what to do, it would still be something you wouldn't have to do on Windows, so anyone who is agnostic to what OS he is using and chooses based on practical criteria and not ideology or philosophy, will most often choose Windows over Linux. Linux experience just isn't there (would like to add "yet", but I don't see it even moving in that direction). I said this before and I'm gonna say again - Linux forces user to learn about OS and computer in general, which is not needed for most of people.
- jebblue 13y ago
  >> Linux forces user to learn about OS and computer in general, which is not needed for most of people. My wife switched in one summer night in 2007, she hasn't looked back, she's a casual user, her laptop came from Dell with Ubuntu pre-installed. I guarantee you, she is the typical, non-techie user.
  - cLeEOGPw 13y ago
    Because it was pre-installed. Everything was already set up by an expert. Let her install a fresh copy and see how it goes. Then let her install windows on same machine and see the difference.
phaemon 13y ago
> antiquated X11 What does that mean? X11R7.7 was only released last year! How is that antiquated?
- Yuioup 13y ago
  Wayland is being developed to specifically replace X11 the latter being based on antiquated principles.
  - binarycrusader 13y ago
    The vast majority of successful software is arguably based on antiquated principles. People seem to continually blame X11 as the source of all of Linux's woes, completely ignoring the history of computing. Most high-end workstations were UNIX-based at one time, and the graphical interface ran on X11. People forget that Photoshop, Internet Explorer, and Adobe Acrobat Reader used to be produced for UNIX and UNIX-like systems. X11 is not the primary issue at hand with Linux; nVidia has proven that repeatedly. At most, I'd be willing to agree that X11 is not optimally architected for local rendering context, but again, I don't think that's going to make the huge difference that people seem to imply.
  - phaemon 13y ago
    You've just given me a fact I'm already well aware of ("Wayland is being developed...") and then restated that X11 is antiquated, but you've never given me a reason why you think that. Do you actually know, or are you just repeating something you read somewhere but didn't really understand?
    - Yuioup 13y ago
      Okay fair enough. No I don't know. It's just what I heard. From what I have understood in the limited knowledge I have of X11, it seems to have no true full screen support, unnecessary layering due to it's legacy client-server architecture and ugly hacks. Clearly you're passionate about X11 and I would like to hear why it is not antiquated.
jebblue 13y ago
Your data seems like, off. Ctrl+Alt+F1 does indeed give you a nice way to kill the game. On Windows, you have to hit power reset and hope you don't lose anything important.

venomsnake 13y ago

Well linux have 10 main desktop managers that are under development right now. Each and every one of them does roughly 80% of what I want from a desktop. And I have uncomfortable experience on all.

girvo 13y ago
I know that feeling. Thankfully, thats why I recently decided to get my hands dirty and help :)
andyroid 13y ago
Sounds great to me! My girlfriend's Windows 8.1 laptop does about 50% of what I want from a desktop. My work provisioned MacBook Air and OS X does about 70% of what I want from a desktop.
subsection1h 13y ago
What's a desktop manager? I know about desktop environments, of which there seem to be 4-5 for Linux, and I know about window managers, of which there are many, thankfully. Please list the "10 main desktop managers" so I can familiarize myself with them. Thanks.
- adamors 13y ago
  Haha, you've gotta love these armchair Linux critics man.
  - venomsnake 13y ago
    Indeed, call a person that sincerely tries for the last 3 months to move to Linux as a daily driver armchair critic. I could live with slightly wooden DE, I could live with the fact that my speakers are buzzing while there are phones connected. The only real dealbreaker is lack of decent file search in Linux. I want something that delivers the speed of search of Everything and has realtime update. No luck so far.
    - 13y ago