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Re proesecutor: "He also agreed to a $500 fine, 500 hours of community service, and the loss of his law license, according to the Innocence Project, a legal cli

by csmuk 13y ago

Re proesecutor: "He also agreed to a $500 fine, 500 hours of community service, and the loss of his law license, according to the Innocence Project, a legal clinic affiliated with Yeshiva University's Cardozo Law School." Sorry not enough. This is one place that "an eye for an eye" should be used. Screw Ghandi's opinion on the subject. The guy was an asshole through and through who ruined two people's already ruined lives.

brazzy 13y ago
I bet there were people who campaigned for the innocent man to be executed based on exactly this state of mind.
- wavefunction 13y ago
  I don't see the equivalency. The prosecutor abused his official position and the legal system to personally advance his career. If anything, we should hold our officials and authorities to even harsher standards to ensure equitable treatment under the law.
  - forktheif 13y ago
    If anything, we should fix the systems that allow miscarriages of justice like this to happen. Yet revenge seems to be the first motivation of most people. Making things worse instead of making things better.
    - wavefunction 13y ago
      We should, but part of fixing the system that allows these things to happen is penalizing "bad actors." The prosecutor hid evidence from the judge, not just the defense. In addition, a brutal murderer is still free among the populace. What if they've killed again in the interim?
      - csmuk 13y ago
        In this case the prosecutor's witheld evidence did result in another murder by the real perpetraitor 2 years later so your point is especially valid. The prosecutor should have that on his shoulders as well.
      - girvo 13y ago
        A brutal murderer is in jail. He did kill in the interim, and was caught for that... pretty sad, to be honest :(
      - VLM 13y ago
        "What if they've killed again in the interim?" That happened. The actual murderer killed another woman before he was caught. The cost to society is not just 25 years of this dudes life but add one dead woman to the list. Of course you can't prove that merely exonerating one dude would somehow have automagically resulted in the cops catching the actual killer.
    - csmuk 13y ago
      It's not about revenge. Our motivation to not do things is driven by consequences. When the balance of power exists so that those who determine consequences for people can do so out of self-interest, they need to be held up to the same standards and face equal consequences themselves. The prosecutor should have a sentence passed against him to ensure others do not follow suit with "$500 and 500 hours community service, oh and I can still be a legal consultant for a corporation - I can accept that risk for some gain"...
      - brazzy 13y ago
        People are really good at ignoring consequences and believing that they won't get caught, or are justified to break the rules. I'd say it's much better to change the system so that it's not in a prosecutor's self interest to convict as many people as possible.
  - csmuk 13y ago
    My point as the GP entirely. You can only hold a prosecutor to a "perfect standard" if they have the power to ruin a person's life through self-interest. That perfect standard should only be enforced the other way as well in the circumstance that they do something wrong on this scale. These positions attract people who wish to be wealthy or powerful. This might not be the case if they have to live up to their own standards. Examples should be made of both sides.
  - brazzy 13y ago
    You are certain, after reading some newspaper articles, that Ken Anderson abused his position for personal gain, and the most important thing to you is that he be punished more severely. Your slogan: "an eye for an eye". Other people were certain, after reading some newspaper articles, that Michael Morton murdered his wife because she would not submit to him sexually, and the most important thing to them was that he be punished more severely. Their slogan: "an eye for an eye". See the similarity now?
    - girvo 13y ago
      No, they have evidence here. Quite a lot of it, in fact. Enough to get Mr Morton off his huge sentence. And enough for the Judge to step down, and plead guilty. Not equivalent, in my opinion.
      - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
        The police probably beat that confession out of Anderson. /s
    - wavefunction 13y ago
      I am certain and I do not see the equivalency. This news story is local to me and is one of many examples of innocent individuals in Texas that have been railroaded by the "authorities" here. In prison, Morton had to put up with forced manual labor, filthy and inhumane conditions, fight off a rapist, and lose 25 years of his life. Anderson had to do 5 days in jail and pay a $500 fine. He should be drug behind a vehicle for several miles or until the tow rope falls off. I understand that sounds extreme, but those most powerful among us with the power to destroy whole lives on a whim should face the full brutality of society.
      - brazzy 13y ago
        YOU should be drug behind a vehicle until you see the equivalency. All you're doing is reiterating that YOU consider this crime so heinous that the rule of law shouldn't apply - which just happens to be close to what this guy did.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  In Texas, there is always some idiot[1] campaigning to have some poor bastard executed. [1] usually a prosecutor.
  - girvo 13y ago
    Your footnote is a tautology. ;)
arrrg 13y ago
I will never understand punishment-crazy people. His career was destroyed. That seems like a large enough disincentive to me. I cannot imagine that worse punishment would lead to better outcomes. It seems to me rather that if you want to fight this you should look elsewhere. Punishing this person harder doesn’t seem like a solution to me.
- girvo 13y ago
  Depends. Hopefully his punishment will become a standard, the article discusses how this is unprecedented. If it becomes standard, hopefully it is enough of a disincentive to balance out the prosecutors incentive to withhold evidence and push for convictions in all cases, as it stands now.
- csmuk 13y ago
  I'm suggesting that he needs to be accountable on his own terms for his actions and should be held to the same standards as his judgement. It's not a big deal for him as a prosecutor. Perhaps it'll be uncomfortable for a bit but the real story is: $500 fine. Acceptable risk. 500 hours community service. Acceptable risk. Struck off... Acceptable risk. Why? His career was certainly not destroyed. He can quite happily fall into a cosy job in a corporate back office as a legal consultant through his contact network and still get a nice pension.
  - arrrg 13y ago
    Acceptable risk? How far removed from reality are you? The punishment he received seems quite horrific and life-destroying to me. Two months wages for withholding tax is acceptable. Losing your career? Not. I’m pretty sure that if prosecutors knew that they will be punished like that and if they knew that punishment is somewhat likely they would rather not do it. Consistency and a high detection rate seem like the most promising ways to improve this, not the severity of the punishment. But Americans are obsessed with their draconian punishment. Nothing new here.
    - csmuk 13y ago
      Actually I'm in the UK. His career is not lost. This is a minor setback. If you've ever worked in corporate law departments, you'll find lots of struck off legal professionals. They still play golf on the same courses, still get paid the same. Their little empires just move.

by csmuk 13y ago

brazzy 13y ago

I bet there were people who campaigned for the innocent man to be executed based on exactly this state of mind.

wavefunction 13y ago
I don't see the equivalency. The prosecutor abused his official position and the legal system to personally advance his career. If anything, we should hold our officials and authorities to even harsher standards to ensure equitable treatment under the law.
- forktheif 13y ago
  If anything, we should fix the systems that allow miscarriages of justice like this to happen. Yet revenge seems to be the first motivation of most people. Making things worse instead of making things better.
  - wavefunction 13y ago
    We should, but part of fixing the system that allows these things to happen is penalizing "bad actors." The prosecutor hid evidence from the judge, not just the defense. In addition, a brutal murderer is still free among the populace. What if they've killed again in the interim?
    - csmuk 13y ago
      In this case the prosecutor's witheld evidence did result in another murder by the real perpetraitor 2 years later so your point is especially valid. The prosecutor should have that on his shoulders as well.
    - girvo 13y ago
      A brutal murderer is in jail. He did kill in the interim, and was caught for that... pretty sad, to be honest :(
    - VLM 13y ago
      "What if they've killed again in the interim?" That happened. The actual murderer killed another woman before he was caught. The cost to society is not just 25 years of this dudes life but add one dead woman to the list. Of course you can't prove that merely exonerating one dude would somehow have automagically resulted in the cops catching the actual killer.
  - csmuk 13y ago
    It's not about revenge. Our motivation to not do things is driven by consequences. When the balance of power exists so that those who determine consequences for people can do so out of self-interest, they need to be held up to the same standards and face equal consequences themselves. The prosecutor should have a sentence passed against him to ensure others do not follow suit with "$500 and 500 hours community service, oh and I can still be a legal consultant for a corporation - I can accept that risk for some gain"...
    - brazzy 13y ago
      People are really good at ignoring consequences and believing that they won't get caught, or are justified to break the rules. I'd say it's much better to change the system so that it's not in a prosecutor's self interest to convict as many people as possible.
- csmuk 13y ago
  My point as the GP entirely. You can only hold a prosecutor to a "perfect standard" if they have the power to ruin a person's life through self-interest. That perfect standard should only be enforced the other way as well in the circumstance that they do something wrong on this scale. These positions attract people who wish to be wealthy or powerful. This might not be the case if they have to live up to their own standards. Examples should be made of both sides.
- brazzy 13y ago
  You are certain, after reading some newspaper articles, that Ken Anderson abused his position for personal gain, and the most important thing to you is that he be punished more severely. Your slogan: "an eye for an eye". Other people were certain, after reading some newspaper articles, that Michael Morton murdered his wife because she would not submit to him sexually, and the most important thing to them was that he be punished more severely. Their slogan: "an eye for an eye". See the similarity now?
  - girvo 13y ago
    No, they have evidence here. Quite a lot of it, in fact. Enough to get Mr Morton off his huge sentence. And enough for the Judge to step down, and plead guilty. Not equivalent, in my opinion.
    - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
      The police probably beat that confession out of Anderson. /s
  - wavefunction 13y ago
    I am certain and I do not see the equivalency. This news story is local to me and is one of many examples of innocent individuals in Texas that have been railroaded by the "authorities" here. In prison, Morton had to put up with forced manual labor, filthy and inhumane conditions, fight off a rapist, and lose 25 years of his life. Anderson had to do 5 days in jail and pay a $500 fine. He should be drug behind a vehicle for several miles or until the tow rope falls off. I understand that sounds extreme, but those most powerful among us with the power to destroy whole lives on a whim should face the full brutality of society.
    - brazzy 13y ago
      YOU should be drug behind a vehicle until you see the equivalency. All you're doing is reiterating that YOU consider this crime so heinous that the rule of law shouldn't apply - which just happens to be close to what this guy did.
fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
In Texas, there is always some idiot[1] campaigning to have some poor bastard executed. [1] usually a prosecutor.
- girvo 13y ago
  Your footnote is a tautology. ;)

arrrg 13y ago

I will never understand punishment-crazy people. His career was destroyed. That seems like a large enough disincentive to me. I cannot imagine that worse punishment would lead to better outcomes. It seems to me rather that if you want to fight this you should look elsewhere. Punishing this person harder doesn’t seem like a solution to me.

girvo 13y ago
Depends. Hopefully his punishment will become a standard, the article discusses how this is unprecedented. If it becomes standard, hopefully it is enough of a disincentive to balance out the prosecutors incentive to withhold evidence and push for convictions in all cases, as it stands now.
csmuk 13y ago
I'm suggesting that he needs to be accountable on his own terms for his actions and should be held to the same standards as his judgement. It's not a big deal for him as a prosecutor. Perhaps it'll be uncomfortable for a bit but the real story is: $500 fine. Acceptable risk. 500 hours community service. Acceptable risk. Struck off... Acceptable risk. Why? His career was certainly not destroyed. He can quite happily fall into a cosy job in a corporate back office as a legal consultant through his contact network and still get a nice pension.
- arrrg 13y ago
  Acceptable risk? How far removed from reality are you? The punishment he received seems quite horrific and life-destroying to me. Two months wages for withholding tax is acceptable. Losing your career? Not. I’m pretty sure that if prosecutors knew that they will be punished like that and if they knew that punishment is somewhat likely they would rather not do it. Consistency and a high detection rate seem like the most promising ways to improve this, not the severity of the punishment. But Americans are obsessed with their draconian punishment. Nothing new here.
  - csmuk 13y ago
    Actually I'm in the UK. His career is not lost. This is a minor setback. If you've ever worked in corporate law departments, you'll find lots of struck off legal professionals. They still play golf on the same courses, still get paid the same. Their little empires just move.