6 ms·

So, uhm... how many blockbuster games have you shipped, just out of curiosity? Not an ad hominem attack. Just, curious, because someone with such confident opin

So, uhm... how many blockbuster games have you shipped, just out of curiosity? Not an ad hominem attack. Just, curious, because someone with such confident opinions as yours about notch's abilities must surely have shipped a few.

pgeorgi 13y ago
I wouldn't call Britney Spears the pinnacle of contemporary arts. But she certainly shipped.
- Sheepshow 13y ago
  Not the same at all! We're talking about Notch's process. I don't think there's any disagreement about his product being top notch (sorry). The product of BS is well, BS, and her process be damned.
tehwebguy 13y ago
> Not an ad hominem attack I don't think just saying that makes it true
- DigitalJack 13y ago
  It's not attacking a person to ask them to back up their qualifications to judge.
  - Mithaldu 13y ago
    How many movies or tv shows have you made? Have you ever told someone that a tv show was bad? I bet the answers are zero and plenty, respectively. The kind of argument you're making is a very big fallacy.
    - thedufer 13y ago
      That's not really a rational analogy. That would be analogous if we were discussing someone consuming minecraft (i.e. playing it), not someone working on it.
  - tehwebguy 13y ago
    Asking for qualifications isn't the same as asking for evidence
    - nknighthb 13y ago
      The discussion is highly subjective. Qualifications are the only kind of evidence there is.
Sir_Cmpwn 13y ago
None. I didn't say Notch can't ship a blockbuster game (and he can ship exactly one). I said he can't code worth a damn, and should not be idolized for his prowess.
- skizm 13y ago
  Notch's code is worth $150 million dollars. What's the going rate for "a damn" these days?
  - Sir_Cmpwn 13y ago
    As amusing as your wordplay might be, the point being made is that Notch's coding skill should not be idolized or used as a reference for writing good code. A tangible consequence of his inability is that Minecraft takes up far more resources than it reasonably should and is very difficult to maintain, which has been echoed by several Mojang devs who have since picked it up.
    - voltagex_ 13y ago
      Do you think they'll ever move away from Java? Do you think Minecraft requires a complete rewrite to be maintainable?
      - Sir_Cmpwn 13y ago
        I don't think they'll ever move away from Java. I don't think Minecraft requires something quite on the scale of a complete rewrite, but perhaps starting from scratch and pasting in bits and pieces of the original to save time would help things. They are working on rewriting substantial portions of the codebase, but unfortunatley Notch didn't hand it off to the most skilled maintainers and they aren't making things much better.
      - throwaway2048 13y ago
        they have already moved away from Java via JNI for some aspects of the game, like openGL 2.0 support.
reidrac 13y ago
I think he may have a point: Notch doesn't need to be an amazing developer but an effective one that delivers. I don't know Notch's abilities, but from one of his LD videos I can tell he's very focused and knows his craft.
gcb0 13y ago
99% of game and webdevs are like this. He's your tech co founder when you want to flip fast. Not your first engineer hire. everyone wants another Carmack, but while productive, he is not (yet?) anyway, i haven't shipped any blockbuster game (it is not even my job to do so) so i will see myself out now.
- alttab 13y ago
  I started this way. I could iterate on new game prototypes quickly because I made many games then threw them away. Might be worth noting his game plays and looks like minecraft. After getting burned by my own design decisions, which each game I made I produced stronger abstractions and decoupled code. Aka learning from mistakes. Devs who only write protoslop or devs who only maintain and clean code up are rarely effective on their own.
voltagex_ 13y ago
No, it's close to an appeal to authority fallacy. The person you've replied to has reimplemented the Minecraft server along with a few other frameworks.
- TheZenPsycho 13y ago
  It would be a fallacy if I had a point, and an argument to make. I have neither. Only a question, with the purposes of placing the comments in some kind of context.

pgeorgi 13y ago

I wouldn't call Britney Spears the pinnacle of contemporary arts. But she certainly shipped.

Sheepshow 13y ago
Not the same at all! We're talking about Notch's process. I don't think there's any disagreement about his product being top notch (sorry). The product of BS is well, BS, and her process be damned.

tehwebguy 13y ago

> Not an ad hominem attack I don't think just saying that makes it true

DigitalJack 13y ago
It's not attacking a person to ask them to back up their qualifications to judge.
- Mithaldu 13y ago
  How many movies or tv shows have you made? Have you ever told someone that a tv show was bad? I bet the answers are zero and plenty, respectively. The kind of argument you're making is a very big fallacy.
  - thedufer 13y ago
    That's not really a rational analogy. That would be analogous if we were discussing someone consuming minecraft (i.e. playing it), not someone working on it.
- tehwebguy 13y ago
  Asking for qualifications isn't the same as asking for evidence
  - nknighthb 13y ago
    The discussion is highly subjective. Qualifications are the only kind of evidence there is.

Sir_Cmpwn 13y ago

None. I didn't say Notch can't ship a blockbuster game (and he can ship exactly one). I said he can't code worth a damn, and should not be idolized for his prowess.

skizm 13y ago
Notch's code is worth $150 million dollars. What's the going rate for "a damn" these days?
- Sir_Cmpwn 13y ago
  As amusing as your wordplay might be, the point being made is that Notch's coding skill should not be idolized or used as a reference for writing good code. A tangible consequence of his inability is that Minecraft takes up far more resources than it reasonably should and is very difficult to maintain, which has been echoed by several Mojang devs who have since picked it up.
  - voltagex_ 13y ago
    Do you think they'll ever move away from Java? Do you think Minecraft requires a complete rewrite to be maintainable?
    - Sir_Cmpwn 13y ago
      I don't think they'll ever move away from Java. I don't think Minecraft requires something quite on the scale of a complete rewrite, but perhaps starting from scratch and pasting in bits and pieces of the original to save time would help things. They are working on rewriting substantial portions of the codebase, but unfortunatley Notch didn't hand it off to the most skilled maintainers and they aren't making things much better.
    - throwaway2048 13y ago
      they have already moved away from Java via JNI for some aspects of the game, like openGL 2.0 support.

reidrac 13y ago

I think he may have a point: Notch doesn't need to be an amazing developer but an effective one that delivers. I don't know Notch's abilities, but from one of his LD videos I can tell he's very focused and knows his craft.

gcb0 13y ago

99% of game and webdevs are like this. He's your tech co founder when you want to flip fast. Not your first engineer hire. everyone wants another Carmack, but while productive, he is not (yet?) anyway, i haven't shipped any blockbuster game (it is not even my job to do so) so i will see myself out now.

alttab 13y ago
I started this way. I could iterate on new game prototypes quickly because I made many games then threw them away. Might be worth noting his game plays and looks like minecraft. After getting burned by my own design decisions, which each game I made I produced stronger abstractions and decoupled code. Aka learning from mistakes. Devs who only write protoslop or devs who only maintain and clean code up are rarely effective on their own.

voltagex_ 13y ago

No, it's close to an appeal to authority fallacy. The person you've replied to has reimplemented the Minecraft server along with a few other frameworks.

TheZenPsycho 13y ago
It would be a fallacy if I had a point, and an argument to make. I have neither. Only a question, with the purposes of placing the comments in some kind of context.