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> Public schools needed a blunt instrument to simply beat the notion of blind obedience to authority into thick adolescent skulls, and they got it through zero

> Public schools needed a blunt instrument to simply beat the notion of blind obedience to authority into thick adolescent skulls, and they got it through zero tolerance policies. Punishing teenagers for violating drug laws or damaging property is "beating the notion of blind obedience to authority into thick adolescent skulls"??? What do you think is going to happen to them when they turn 18?

epochwolf 13y ago
> What do you think is going to happen to them when they turn 18? This is why we have jails.
superuser2 13y ago
My high school administrators approached underage drinking like a secret police force. There were skilled interrogators, effective emotional manipulation, good-cop-bad-cop routines, physical intimidation, etc. There was an administrative employee built like a tank who would be sent to (very publicly) collect suspects from their classrooms for interrogation. They made plea bargains (which they sometimes didn't honor) for informing on others. They performed social engineering attacks to increase their signals intelligence capabilities - give us a look at your Facebook account (or just hand over your password), identify these (pseudonymous) Tumblr URLs, etc. and we won't destroy your future by calling your college and having your admission rescinded. They made deals and adjusted punishments based on whether or not you would identify photographs. When there were reports of drinking on one of the international class trips (to a country with a low drinking age) they rounded up and interrogated everyone from all of the foreign trips. A good portion of the senior class confessed and was suspended. Because some people ordered wine with dinner in France. If a party was busted by the village police, they'd brethalyze and ticket every single person, then notify the school - which would kick them out of their current extracurricular activity for the remainder of the season/play. I turned 18 and went to college. We were taught about responsible drinking - extensive lessons on consent, standard drink sizing, alcohol poisoning, etc. And we were told that administration and the university police are concerned only with safety and noise. RAs know about parties in the dorms (in fact, they have to be registered and neighbors are given a chance to veto if they have a test the next day or something) and do not care. The university police shut down apartment parties for noise complaints but make no inquiries as to the ages or intoxication of the partygoers. So, to answer your rhetorical question: that. That is going to happen to them when they turn 18. Authority will stop caring about bullshit.
- stephenbez 13y ago
  Wow that sounds horrible. Where did you go to school at? If you just shut up and said nothing, was there anything they could do to you (assuming there isn't photographic/video evidence)? The local Catholic High School started a program every week they randomly drug/alcohol test a portion of the student population. I was really surprised when no one took a look at the false positive rate. Using reasonable assumptions on high school drug abuse rate along with the false positive rate used for similar tests, I discovered that significantly more people who test positive will have never used the drug.
  - superuser2 13y ago
    Suburban upper-middle-class district in the Midwest. Most everyone went into the office planning on shutting up and saying nothing; only a few actually managed to do that. But no, absent other evidence, they only punished those who confessed.
glenra 13y ago
When they turn 18 they will be allowed to choose where they spend their time and what they do with it and who they spend it with, which is likely to reduce both the need to self-medicate and the chance of getting caught doing so.

epochwolf 13y ago

> What do you think is going to happen to them when they turn 18? This is why we have jails.

superuser2 13y ago

My high school administrators approached underage drinking like a secret police force. There were skilled interrogators, effective emotional manipulation, good-cop-bad-cop routines, physical intimidation, etc. There was an administrative employee built like a tank who would be sent to (very publicly) collect suspects from their classrooms for interrogation. They made plea bargains (which they sometimes didn't honor) for informing on others. They performed social engineering attacks to increase their signals intelligence capabilities - give us a look at your Facebook account (or just hand over your password), identify these (pseudonymous) Tumblr URLs, etc. and we won't destroy your future by calling your college and having your admission rescinded. They made deals and adjusted punishments based on whether or not you would identify photographs. When there were reports of drinking on one of the international class trips (to a country with a low drinking age) they rounded up and interrogated everyone from all of the foreign trips. A good portion of the senior class confessed and was suspended. Because some people ordered wine with dinner in France. If a party was busted by the village police, they'd brethalyze and ticket every single person, then notify the school - which would kick them out of their current extracurricular activity for the remainder of the season/play. I turned 18 and went to college. We were taught about responsible drinking - extensive lessons on consent, standard drink sizing, alcohol poisoning, etc. And we were told that administration and the university police are concerned only with safety and noise. RAs know about parties in the dorms (in fact, they have to be registered and neighbors are given a chance to veto if they have a test the next day or something) and do not care. The university police shut down apartment parties for noise complaints but make no inquiries as to the ages or intoxication of the partygoers. So, to answer your rhetorical question: that. That is going to happen to them when they turn 18. Authority will stop caring about bullshit.

stephenbez 13y ago
Wow that sounds horrible. Where did you go to school at? If you just shut up and said nothing, was there anything they could do to you (assuming there isn't photographic/video evidence)? The local Catholic High School started a program every week they randomly drug/alcohol test a portion of the student population. I was really surprised when no one took a look at the false positive rate. Using reasonable assumptions on high school drug abuse rate along with the false positive rate used for similar tests, I discovered that significantly more people who test positive will have never used the drug.
- superuser2 13y ago
  Suburban upper-middle-class district in the Midwest. Most everyone went into the office planning on shutting up and saying nothing; only a few actually managed to do that. But no, absent other evidence, they only punished those who confessed.

glenra 13y ago

When they turn 18 they will be allowed to choose where they spend their time and what they do with it and who they spend it with, which is likely to reduce both the need to self-medicate and the chance of getting caught doing so.