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> Of course it's hard to tell if allowing arbitrary exceptions also allows the same kind of problem. As illustrated above, there are always arbitrary exception

> Of course it's hard to tell if allowing arbitrary exceptions also allows the same kind of problem. As illustrated above, there are always arbitrary exceptions, because the people can informally let kids off the hook. The problem is that the punishments are so high. Why can't zero tolerance use less drastic punishments?

VLM 13y ago
"Why can't zero tolerance use less drastic punishments?" You seem not to have read my post. The reason it exists is to allow the arbitrary destruction of kids lives, preferentially as a weapon against minorities, undesirables, the poor, often all of the above. You're treating the primary purpose of that feature as if its a bug. Like asking why the "rm" command takes the drastic effect of deleting files. For example, one reason why it might exist is so if a teacher gets called a bitch, the cops would laugh at a teacher who tried to report that as assault, but if the teacher can label a girl as a drug dealer and get her expelled and prevent her from graduating or getting on the middle class treadmill in general, because of the girl's monthly cycle and some advil in her purse, well, we'll see who's the dominant primate and who gets the last laugh in that argument. Its NOT a bug its an intentionally inhumane feature, correctly implemented. Its possible to do a really efficient and effective job of being evil. I don't really know how to rephrase it more clearly? Its like the anti-google motto or something?
- scarecrowbob 13y ago
  I agree. The general mechanism is to push "control" of the situation and the punishment outside of the actual agents who are enacting punishment: under "zero-tolerance", it is no longer the arbitrary agency of the teachers and administration, but laws that "force" them to take these actions. In situations where there is no "zero tolerance", there are still arbitrary and gross executions of power, but the agency behind this power can at least be (more) clearly traced to the actors behind it.
- gaius 13y ago
  In many ways, teachers are people who never grew up past high school. They can't wait to go back and do it all again, but as the ultimate popular kid.
- darkarmani 13y ago
  > You seem not to have read my post. The reason it exists is to allow the arbitrary destruction of kids lives, preferentially as a weapon against minorities, undesirables, the poor, often all of the above. You're treating the primary purpose of that feature as if its a bug. I didn't respond to your post. But you are wrong about the reason "it" exists. The school administrators that create the zero tolerance policies are usually not the same people that are on the ground enforcing the policies. It might be used as a weapon by the teachers on the ground, but they aren't the ones creating the policies.

VLM 13y ago

"Why can't zero tolerance use less drastic punishments?" You seem not to have read my post. The reason it exists is to allow the arbitrary destruction of kids lives, preferentially as a weapon against minorities, undesirables, the poor, often all of the above. You're treating the primary purpose of that feature as if its a bug. Like asking why the "rm" command takes the drastic effect of deleting files. For example, one reason why it might exist is so if a teacher gets called a bitch, the cops would laugh at a teacher who tried to report that as assault, but if the teacher can label a girl as a drug dealer and get her expelled and prevent her from graduating or getting on the middle class treadmill in general, because of the girl's monthly cycle and some advil in her purse, well, we'll see who's the dominant primate and who gets the last laugh in that argument. Its NOT a bug its an intentionally inhumane feature, correctly implemented. Its possible to do a really efficient and effective job of being evil. I don't really know how to rephrase it more clearly? Its like the anti-google motto or something?

scarecrowbob 13y ago
I agree. The general mechanism is to push "control" of the situation and the punishment outside of the actual agents who are enacting punishment: under "zero-tolerance", it is no longer the arbitrary agency of the teachers and administration, but laws that "force" them to take these actions. In situations where there is no "zero tolerance", there are still arbitrary and gross executions of power, but the agency behind this power can at least be (more) clearly traced to the actors behind it.
gaius 13y ago
In many ways, teachers are people who never grew up past high school. They can't wait to go back and do it all again, but as the ultimate popular kid.
darkarmani 13y ago
> You seem not to have read my post. The reason it exists is to allow the arbitrary destruction of kids lives, preferentially as a weapon against minorities, undesirables, the poor, often all of the above. You're treating the primary purpose of that feature as if its a bug. I didn't respond to your post. But you are wrong about the reason "it" exists. The school administrators that create the zero tolerance policies are usually not the same people that are on the ground enforcing the policies. It might be used as a weapon by the teachers on the ground, but they aren't the ones creating the policies.