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I don't want to criticise the blub essay too much because there were some valid points in there. But in fairness as soon as I read it I thought of John Carmack.

I don't want to criticise the blub essay too much because there were some valid points in there. But in fairness as soon as I read it I thought of John Carmack. He uses C++. Given that the perspective of the essay is Lisp then if C++ isn't a blub I don't know what is. But John Carmack is really productive. Also he doesn't use vi or emacs. He uses an IDE! He used it even before it had any bells or whistles at all. (He also uses Windows!) So is it because he's a genius and he does it in spite of using blub? Or is it because: "Peter Norvig here. [....] In terms of programming-in-the-large, at Google and elsewhere, I think that language choice is not as important as all the other choices: if you have the right overall architecture, the right team of programmers, the right development process that allows for rapid development with continuous improvement, then many languages will work for you; if you don't have those things you're in trouble regardless of your language choice." As for Notch. He uses Java and wait for it.. Eclipse!

bcjordan 13y ago
For the confused, blub is the hypothetical language from pg's essay Beating the Averages: http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html
- coldtea 13y ago
  Well, it's just an essay. Not something even remotely proven. A computer SCIENTIST should scorn the use of the "blub" notion as something that holds a priori.
  - peterashford 13y ago
    Not to mention that it's a very opinionated, elitist, offensive essay. How calling people "Blub developers" can be taken serious and not as elitist posturing is beyond me.
klrr 13y ago
So you claim he learnt a language and a new technology quickly, solely because he uses an IDE? I doubt so... The Norvig quote sounds more reasonable.
- discreteevent 13y ago
  Not at all. What I am saying is that it clearly doesn't matter. Some people are productive in vim. Some people are productive in eclipse and java (even though they are incredibly un-hip and won't score you any points at conferences (with your dell laptop running windows!). But like the article says really productive people tend to be focused on the product.
  - sologrrl 13y ago
    Yes, people tend to focus more on the tools rather than the product. As long as you don't do things like using LOLCODE for a huge enterprise app, the language and environment you know are more important in making something rather than things like text editors and IDEs.
riwsky 13y ago
For John Carmack's take on the matter, see: John Carmack: "Thoughts on Haskell" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6278047 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6278047
- discreteevent 13y ago
  I know he tried Haskell. I agree with him on a lot of points he made there. But: 1. He investigated it long after he had already been successful using something more mainstream. If you are starting something up then I think it would be good advice to use what you know and get on with it. If that's Haskell then good for you. If its not then don't waste your time. Get on with the product. 2. Even then he didn't finish rebuilding his game because he was drawn back to his day to day work. The guy is just product focused.
- efnx 13y ago
  I really, really want to see Carmack's Haskell. That would be a super fun read.
melling 13y ago
So, why do you think he went with Dart? You're kind of telling us that what he chose didn't matter, but he must have had his reasons for jumping into a new technology. We probably can't infer much from Notch's use of Dart beyond the fact that the technology is baked enough for real world use. I guess someone could always ask Notch for his opinion on Dart, after he's used it for a few more weeks.
- discreteevent 13y ago
  The primary reason no doubt is because it enables him to deliver over the web. There are other languages for this but I have no doubt that in Notch's case I have no doubt its because he feels he can be productive in it and that is because it is similar to what he knows. He was asked on reddit why he chose java and he had a really simple answer: "Because I know it" Given the massive language debates that are out there I thought this was pretty refreshing and indicative of a successful person whose focus is elsewhere. Myself I think Dart is a massive improvement over java and I could probably debate it all day. But then again I'm not as successful as Notch, maybe I should ease up on the debating.
- ahoge 13y ago
  > why do you think he went with Dart? I'd guess because it offers more structure than JavaScript. You have classes, packages, and you can just `import` things. You also get proper tooling. You can also overload operators, which is kinda nice for games (vector math). He wrote a lot of Java and AS3. Dart is very similar. Just a bit terser and a bit "scriptier".
- AYBABTME 13y ago
  Maybe he just did it in Dart for fun.
- RyanZAG 13y ago
  Dart is very close to Java but with a number of language features altered to be closer to matching web APIs and for easier trans-compilation to Javascript. So Notch using Dart isn't very unlikely if he already liked Java.
raverbashing 13y ago
Well, yes, I used an IDE in the Turbo Pascal/Turbo C++ era from which John Carmack comes DJGPP and RHIDE as well. It was not common to use a separate editor apart from the "programming environment"

bcjordan 13y ago

For the confused, blub is the hypothetical language from pg's essay Beating the Averages: http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html

coldtea 13y ago
Well, it's just an essay. Not something even remotely proven. A computer SCIENTIST should scorn the use of the "blub" notion as something that holds a priori.
- peterashford 13y ago
  Not to mention that it's a very opinionated, elitist, offensive essay. How calling people "Blub developers" can be taken serious and not as elitist posturing is beyond me.

klrr 13y ago

So you claim he learnt a language and a new technology quickly, solely because he uses an IDE? I doubt so... The Norvig quote sounds more reasonable.

discreteevent 13y ago
Not at all. What I am saying is that it clearly doesn't matter. Some people are productive in vim. Some people are productive in eclipse and java (even though they are incredibly un-hip and won't score you any points at conferences (with your dell laptop running windows!). But like the article says really productive people tend to be focused on the product.
- sologrrl 13y ago
  Yes, people tend to focus more on the tools rather than the product. As long as you don't do things like using LOLCODE for a huge enterprise app, the language and environment you know are more important in making something rather than things like text editors and IDEs.

riwsky 13y ago

For John Carmack's take on the matter, see: John Carmack: "Thoughts on Haskell" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6278047 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6278047

discreteevent 13y ago
I know he tried Haskell. I agree with him on a lot of points he made there. But: 1. He investigated it long after he had already been successful using something more mainstream. If you are starting something up then I think it would be good advice to use what you know and get on with it. If that's Haskell then good for you. If its not then don't waste your time. Get on with the product. 2. Even then he didn't finish rebuilding his game because he was drawn back to his day to day work. The guy is just product focused.
efnx 13y ago
I really, really want to see Carmack's Haskell. That would be a super fun read.

melling 13y ago

So, why do you think he went with Dart? You're kind of telling us that what he chose didn't matter, but he must have had his reasons for jumping into a new technology. We probably can't infer much from Notch's use of Dart beyond the fact that the technology is baked enough for real world use. I guess someone could always ask Notch for his opinion on Dart, after he's used it for a few more weeks.

discreteevent 13y ago
The primary reason no doubt is because it enables him to deliver over the web. There are other languages for this but I have no doubt that in Notch's case I have no doubt its because he feels he can be productive in it and that is because it is similar to what he knows. He was asked on reddit why he chose java and he had a really simple answer: "Because I know it" Given the massive language debates that are out there I thought this was pretty refreshing and indicative of a successful person whose focus is elsewhere. Myself I think Dart is a massive improvement over java and I could probably debate it all day. But then again I'm not as successful as Notch, maybe I should ease up on the debating.
ahoge 13y ago
> why do you think he went with Dart? I'd guess because it offers more structure than JavaScript. You have classes, packages, and you can just `import` things. You also get proper tooling. You can also overload operators, which is kinda nice for games (vector math). He wrote a lot of Java and AS3. Dart is very similar. Just a bit terser and a bit "scriptier".
AYBABTME 13y ago
Maybe he just did it in Dart for fun.
RyanZAG 13y ago
Dart is very close to Java but with a number of language features altered to be closer to matching web APIs and for easier trans-compilation to Javascript. So Notch using Dart isn't very unlikely if he already liked Java.

raverbashing 13y ago

Well, yes, I used an IDE in the Turbo Pascal/Turbo C++ era from which John Carmack comes DJGPP and RHIDE as well. It was not common to use a separate editor apart from the "programming environment"