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As a lawyer who has represented school children in Broward and Miami-Dade disciplinary and IEP proceedings, I have been involved in some outrageous cases. For

As a lawyer who has represented school children in Broward and Miami-Dade disciplinary and IEP proceedings, I have been involved in some outrageous cases. For example in one IEP matter the school refused to purchase a deaf student a ~$50 reading program violating her Constitutional right to free and appropriate education, only after retaining a lawyer did the school comply. Maybe of more interest to the HN crowd, I represented an exceptional (in the ESE definition) student, who had already been expelled for uploading a script to the school's computer network that shutdown the server on 10 minute intervals. Under the county code his conduct was labeled as hacking and subject to the same punishment as student's charged with hate crimes. The student actually volunteered his free time to work with the school's IT department, he brought the vulnerability to the attention of the IT department, and only did what he did after bringing it to the attention of the IT department and they failed to take action. After 6 months, the student was finally reinstated, only through a technicality that he too was being denied a free and appropriate education. In his case he was 17 in his Sr year, in an IB program where he normally split his time between high school and college classes and was on track to graduate high school with 2 years of college credit, but as a result of his expulsion he was placed in an alternative school where he could no longer take IB classes or his college classes so it was determined he was not receiving an appropriate education. Personally I was detained in school by the secret service for counterfeiting when I was 14, I received no school related disciplinary action, and as a direct result I am a lawyer who gives back to children in similar circumstances - how many have lost a similar opportunity to learn from their mistakes and allow their mistakes to have a positive impact of their future?

throwaway0094 13y ago
I was suspended multiple times in middle school ("hacking" -- nothing had restricted permissions back in those days) and high school for being stupid and mouthing off to a teacher who wasn't going as fast as I wanted. I took all of the math available at my local community college ("advanced" calculus, differential equations) in sophomore and junior years of highschool, took AP CS AB senior year, got a 5 on a number of AP exams (CS AB, Chemistry, ...), graduated HS with a 3.9 (of 4.0). I am really lucky to have had a principal who was able to see past my immature behavior and strike the suspensions from my record for college applications. As a result I was directly admitted into the CS program at the U of Washington (semi-uncommon), finished undergrad in 2⅓ years, and graduated cum laude with a ~3.85 (of 4.0). Now I work at an amazing software company hacking on a really cool operating system. I can't imagine I would be in the same place making the same kind of $$$ if a zero-tolerance policy had applied at any point during my K-12 education.
degeneratekids 13y ago
You might be a lawyer but there is no "Constitutional right to free and appropriate education." Public schools in states accepting federal monies are obligated to provide services to disabled students because of laws like EAHCA and IDEA, not the US Constitution.
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  there is no "Constitutional right to free and appropriate education." There is in Florida: http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Constitution#A9 http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Constitution#A9 "Constitutional" need not refer exclusively to the US Constitution.
  - rquantz 13y ago
    Likewise, just because a right is not enumerated in the Constitution does not mean it is not a constitutional right under the federal constitution.
    - dredmorbius 13y ago
      If you're going to pursue that argument, you'll have to point to construction, gloss, precedent, stare decisis, etc. You don't just get to make crap up. Edit: The parallel comment here actually does note that unenumerated rights can and do exist: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6842667 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6842667
      - will_brown 13y ago
        Just for example, the right to an attorney in a criminal case...that is not enumerated in the Constitution but comes from case law, Gideon v. Wainwright (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gideon_v._Wainwright http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gideon_v._Wainwright), interpreting the 14th Amendment. (Although a Constitutional Right there is additional case law that carves out certain criminal cases where an indigent would not be entitled to an attorney). Or how about Brown v. Board, you can read the Constitution all day and not find a single thing about the Constitutionality of de jure racial segregation in schools, yet when you read the case law that interprets the 14th Amendment, you will find in Brown 9-0 the Justices held such laws are Unconsitutional and violate the 14th Amendment. Further, it was just a few years earlier SCOTUS held separate but equal did not violate the 14th Amendment. So put less stock into the plain reading of the Constitution and more into the interpretation, which historically has been subject to change.
scott_s 13y ago
Thank you for the work you do.
HeyLaughingBoy 13y ago
Thank you for helping rational behavior continue. It's not all bad everywhere though. When he was in elementary school, we were asked to come in and pick our son up one day. Apparently he claimed that he was going to "blow up the building and kill everyone." The principal understood that as a 7 year-old he was probably kidding, but had to make a point that the behavior was unacceptable so he had to leave for the rest of the day. No police being called, no lockdown, no suspension. Just go home and talk to your parents and come back the next day. (And a bit later, I realized the reason the phrase sounded so familiar is because he heard it in a movie ("Deck the Halls") we had watched a week earlier.) On the other hand, when a bomb threat was found in the High School in the same district, the entire school district was locked down, kids in the HS evacuated, bomb disposal teams called in and the kid responsible tossed in jail for making threats of terrorism. Point being is that some school districts do take care to have a measured response to these things.

throwaway0094 13y ago

I was suspended multiple times in middle school ("hacking" -- nothing had restricted permissions back in those days) and high school for being stupid and mouthing off to a teacher who wasn't going as fast as I wanted. I took all of the math available at my local community college ("advanced" calculus, differential equations) in sophomore and junior years of highschool, took AP CS AB senior year, got a 5 on a number of AP exams (CS AB, Chemistry, ...), graduated HS with a 3.9 (of 4.0). I am really lucky to have had a principal who was able to see past my immature behavior and strike the suspensions from my record for college applications. As a result I was directly admitted into the CS program at the U of Washington (semi-uncommon), finished undergrad in 2⅓ years, and graduated cum laude with a ~3.85 (of 4.0). Now I work at an amazing software company hacking on a really cool operating system. I can't imagine I would be in the same place making the same kind of $$$ if a zero-tolerance policy had applied at any point during my K-12 education.

degeneratekids 13y ago

You might be a lawyer but there is no "Constitutional right to free and appropriate education." Public schools in states accepting federal monies are obligated to provide services to disabled students because of laws like EAHCA and IDEA, not the US Constitution.

dredmorbius 13y ago
there is no "Constitutional right to free and appropriate education." There is in Florida: http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Constitution#A9 http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Constitution#A9 "Constitutional" need not refer exclusively to the US Constitution.
- rquantz 13y ago
  Likewise, just because a right is not enumerated in the Constitution does not mean it is not a constitutional right under the federal constitution.
  - dredmorbius 13y ago
    If you're going to pursue that argument, you'll have to point to construction, gloss, precedent, stare decisis, etc. You don't just get to make crap up. Edit: The parallel comment here actually does note that unenumerated rights can and do exist: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6842667 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6842667
    - will_brown 13y ago
      Just for example, the right to an attorney in a criminal case...that is not enumerated in the Constitution but comes from case law, Gideon v. Wainwright (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gideon_v._Wainwright http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gideon_v._Wainwright), interpreting the 14th Amendment. (Although a Constitutional Right there is additional case law that carves out certain criminal cases where an indigent would not be entitled to an attorney). Or how about Brown v. Board, you can read the Constitution all day and not find a single thing about the Constitutionality of de jure racial segregation in schools, yet when you read the case law that interprets the 14th Amendment, you will find in Brown 9-0 the Justices held such laws are Unconsitutional and violate the 14th Amendment. Further, it was just a few years earlier SCOTUS held separate but equal did not violate the 14th Amendment. So put less stock into the plain reading of the Constitution and more into the interpretation, which historically has been subject to change.

scott_s 13y ago

Thank you for the work you do.

HeyLaughingBoy 13y ago

Thank you for helping rational behavior continue. It's not all bad everywhere though. When he was in elementary school, we were asked to come in and pick our son up one day. Apparently he claimed that he was going to "blow up the building and kill everyone." The principal understood that as a 7 year-old he was probably kidding, but had to make a point that the behavior was unacceptable so he had to leave for the rest of the day. No police being called, no lockdown, no suspension. Just go home and talk to your parents and come back the next day. (And a bit later, I realized the reason the phrase sounded so familiar is because he heard it in a movie ("Deck the Halls") we had watched a week earlier.) On the other hand, when a bomb threat was found in the High School in the same district, the entire school district was locked down, kids in the HS evacuated, bomb disposal teams called in and the kid responsible tossed in jail for making threats of terrorism. Point being is that some school districts do take care to have a measured response to these things.