5 ms·

Ask HN: How do I legally run a startup in US while on an F1 or H1B visa?

• lazyant 13y ago
  IANAL, I believe you cannot work on your startup or any other company with an F1 (you can only work part-time on campus edit: I forgot about the OPT, worth looking into) or H1B (you can only work for the company that sponsored you). You may want to look at the L1 visa.
  • datacog 13y ago
    L1 visa has to be sponsored by a company outside of US, so that wouldnt be a feasible option.
  • deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
    • datacog 13y ago
      on H1B, I am legally only allowed to work for the company that sponsored me the visa. I can switch company, but I can again work only for that one. L1 doesnt allow switching jobs. But both of them have no lee way for forming your own companies in my opinion
    • alain94040 13y ago
      Please do not spread incorrect information when it comes to US immigration, mistakes can have very real and life-changing consequences.
  • datacog 13y ago
    Also, I have gradudated and am working on F1 Opt, so I can work fulltime outside campus.
  • abhat1988 13y ago
    Please your information is incorrect, with proper authorization (OPT or STEM extension) a student on an F1 visa can start a company. Please look at my other post for reference to the guidance published by ICE.
• TheCoelacanth 13y ago
  The only visa intended for starting a business is the E5 visa. You need at least $1 million in capital to qualify.
  • cylinder 13y ago
    Misinformation. The E-1 and E-2 exist specifically for starting businesses in the US. H1B and even L-1 can also be used in some cases.
• iambvk 13y ago
  IANAL, you can start a startup on H1B if you can prove that you are not sponsoring yourself. The way few people I know did is, by having a board of directors with the power to fire you (maybe through majority vote). You need to list a member of board-of-directors as your manager.
• codegeek 13y ago
  IANAL but based on experience, in general you can legally "own" a company/startup while on F1/H1B but you cannot "run" it. However, USCIS has come up with an explanation of "Employer-Employee relationship [0]" which is worth looking into if on H1B. The Requirement 1 is interesting: + How do I demonstrate an employer-employee relationship if I own my own company? If you own your company you may be able to demonstrate that an employer-employee relationship exists if the control of your work is exercised by others. For example, if your company has a board of directors, preferred shareholders, investors, or other factors that show your organization has the right to control the terms and conditions of your employment (namely the right to hire, fire, pay, supervise or otherwise control the terms and conditions of your employment), then you may be able to meet this requirement. Some of the evidence you may submit to demonstrate the distinction between your ownership interest and the right to control your employment includes: Term Sheet Capitalization Table Stock purchase Agreement Investor rights Agreement Voting Agreement Organizational documents and operating agreements Otherwise, your options are almost none unless you quality for EB5 [1] [0] http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/h-1b-specialty-occupation/understanding-h-1b-requirements http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/h-1b-specialty-occupatio... [1] http://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/permanent-workers/employment-based-immigration-fifth-preference-eb-5/eb-5-immigrant-investor http://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/permanent-workers...
  • bradleyjg 13y ago
    The H1B petition process requires the employer to show that it can pay the prevailing wage. That's going to be near impossible for a pre-funding startup.
• bradleyjg 13y ago
  There's no such visa unfortunately. If you qualify for an EB-1A you could self petition without a job offer and receive a green card that would entitle you to work wherever you'd like. But that requires you to be among the best in your field. It's a pretty high bar.
  • eshvk 13y ago
    > But that requires you to be among the best in your field. It's a pretty high bar. Surprisingly, the bar is not that high. They have weird rules like people who are "good" in your field need to recommend you, you need to have something published somewhere. The nitty gritties mean that say a random fashion model who has appeared on some magazine somewhere can suddenly become an alien with extraordinary ability.
    • bradleyjg 13y ago
      I've helped put together a few, all successful. You are right that it isn't as hard as it might seem at first blush. You can get through some mid to late career professionals who are fairly successful in their chosen field, even if it might be a stretch to call them extraordinary. But the OP sounds like someone just out of school. The heart of the petition is the need to provide evidence for at least three of the following: 1. Receipt of lesser nationally or internationally recognized prizes or awards for excellence. 2. Membership in associations which require outstanding achievements of their members, as judged by recognized national or international experts in their fields. 3. Published material in professional/major trade publications or major media about the alien and relating to the alien's work field. 4. Participation as a judge (individually or as a part of a panel) evaluating the work of others. 5. Original scientific, scholarly, or artistic contributions of major significance. 6. Authorship of scholarly articles in professional journals or other major media. 7. Artistic exhibitions/shows. 8. Leading role within an organization/establishment with a distinguished reputation. 9. High salary/compensation for services in comparison to others. 10. Commercial success within the performing arts, as shown by either box office receipt figures or cassette, compact disk, video, or DVD sales figures.
      • 13y ago
• abhat1988 13y ago
  You can work as an independant contractor or start a company on an OPT, STEM extension and even on a Pre-Completion OPT. I recommend that you read this policy guidance published by the ICE in 2010. http://www.ice.gov/doclib/sevis/pdf/opt_policy_guidance_042010.pdf http://www.ice.gov/doclib/sevis/pdf/opt_policy_guidance_0420... It clearly states that: On page 18.  Work for hire. This is also commonly referred to as 1099 employment, where an individual performs a service based on a contractual relationship rather than an employment relationship. If requested by DHS, the student must be prepared to provide evidence showing the duration of the contract period and the name and address of the contracting company.  Self-employed business owner. A student on OPT may start a business and be self-employed. The student must be able to prove that he or she has the proper business licenses and is actively engaged in a business related to the student’s degree program. On page 19 For a student who is on a 17-month extension, this employment may include  Multiple employers. A student may work for more than one employer, but all employment must be related to his or her degree program and all employers must be enrolled in E-Verify.  Work for hire. This is also commonly referred to as 1099 employment, where an individual performs a service based on a contractual relationship rather than an employment relationship. The company for whom the student is providing services must be registered with E-Verify. If requested by DHS, the student must be prepared to provide evidence showing the duration of the contract period and the name and address of the contracting company.  Self-employed business owner. A student on a 17-month extension can start a business and be self-employed. In this situation, the student must register his or her business with E-Verify and work full time. The student must be able to prove that he or she has the proper business licenses and is actively engaged in a business related to his or her degree program. Contact me if you are interested in learning more about this topic. Akshay Bhat (Cornell University)
  • datacog 13y ago
    What happens when my OPT stem extension gets over ? Mine ends in June 2014
• shenoybr 13y ago
  Here is a link to USCIS own guidance for the above question. http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/entrepreneur-visa-guide http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/entrepreneur-visa-guide IMHO, its not impossible and you have options, but it will not be hassle free. You'll have to jump a lot of hurdles before you get through.
• vowelless 13y ago
  Stay in OPT as long as you can. You get more flexibility that way. Try getting the 17 month (I think) extension. If you are on an H1B, you need to get a US person co-founder and have them 'sponsor' you. Be wary about the start up failing because as soon as the sponsor breaks their contract, you will be out of status [1]. This means you may have to leave the country immediately. The E5 visa [2] is the best alternative. If you can secure funding of around $500,000, you get the right to live and work in the US almost as a US person. You can work for yourself, travel in and out of the country as you wish, etc. [1] http://www.klaskolaw.com/articles.php?action=view&id=8 http://www.klaskolaw.com/articles.php?action=view&id=8 > Terminated H-1B employees should be aware that time is not on their side. If the employee has plans to have another H-1B petition filed on his or her behalf, or to change to another nonimmigrant status, those plans should be implemented as quickly as possible. [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa
  • eshvk 13y ago
    > Stay in OPT as long as you can. You get more flexibility that way. Try getting the 17 month (I think) extension. You need to start working at a company with no more than total 90 days of unemployment between jobs. Also, the 17 month extension works only if the company is enrolled in everify.
    • sanchitarora 13y ago
      The e-verify process is very easy and if you have incorporated your startup you can go ahead and do the e-verification yourself. Keep in mind that you are employee of your own company, so as long as the company is registered you should not have the 90 day unemployment problem.
      • read 13y ago
        I can confirm a friend incorporated and did the e-verification themselves and indeed did not have the 90 day unemployment problem.
  • bradleyjg 13y ago
• eshvk 13y ago
  I believe the guys who started interviewstreet were on an H1B visa. Maybe talk to them?
• sharmanaetor 13y ago
  I'd suggest you don't take legal advice on a forum such as this. Contact a lawyer.
• mikegalarza 13y ago
  How I hacked my US startup visa: http://qz.com/151333/how-i-hacked-my-us-startup-visa/ http://qz.com/151333/how-i-hacked-my-us-startup-visa/
  • jorgem 13y ago
    This is an interesting tale. When I read these, and all the we should have an "entrepreneur visa" stories, I can't help but feel sorry for all the others who aren't as well educated and will never be able to hack our system.
    • eshvk 13y ago
      This is true for everything in life. E.g. I became a permanent resident after winning the green card lottery. The process of getting together nearly five pounds worth of documents, spending thousands of dollars talking to lawyers in three different countries, reading enough legal jibberish to understand that the way the law works in the U.S. is always subject to interpretation and knowing what that interpretation actually is makes me very certain that if I had got the lottery at any other previous point in my life, I would never have made it. In fact, thousands of the "poor, unwashed masses" who this lottery is supposed to help make it easier for, never get in for stupid silly reasons.
• mkertajaya 13y ago
  I think you are ok if you are still on OPT status. As you long as you can show that are applying skills you learned from school. But try checking with your international office at school.
• grumpyoldhacker 13y ago
  You can't. These visa categories have been specifically engineered to prevent you from working outside of your original job. Trust me, you do NOT want to screw with Immigration. I'd been on J1/H1B/pre-Green-Card-waiting-list for a total of 10 years, so I had a lot of time to think about this. Best shot if you are in an insane hurry: Marry a US citizen and really mean it. So better stop hacking in the evenings and go out. Start an interesting hobby. Get a hair cut. Read good books. Make friends that are NOT hackers. Get a tan. Eat good food. Smile at members of your preferred opposite gender and get super-comfortable talking to them. Do NOT think about get-rich-quick-start-up ideas, it will only drive you mad if you can't actually start them up. Nobody wants to hang out with a person torn by the realization that they are in an impossible situation. Enjoy the ride. You are young, bright and you work in an amazing field while living in a (presumably) fascinating place.
  • cylinder 13y ago
    Ridiculous post. OP has options other than marriage.
    • eshvk 13y ago
      Depends on where OP was born really and how many degrees he has. The employment based Green card process is terrible if you were born in China or India, or don't have a Masters degree. Otherwise, it is not that complicated. There are enough folks who get a permanent residentship through work in a couple of years. Also, the green card lottery is an option that everyone (who is eligible) should try for.
  • datacog 13y ago
    Best shot if you are in an insane hurry: Marry a US citizen and really mean it. > I'm already married, so this is out of the equation. Do NOT think about get-rich-quick-start-up ideas. > Well, I have been working on this for a while, so it wouldnt be a quick-startup-idea, and lately I have been getting some good traction for this, so its a pity it isnt a straightfwd thing to pursue.
• stox 13y ago
  Go look up Phillipe Kahn. Unless they fixed them, there are some holes that can be specifically exploited when creating your own company.
• cemregr 13y ago
  * You can do this on the OPT *. Without OPT F-1 employment rules are strict. But the OPT is basically a green card when it comes to what kind of work you can do (anywhere, you don't have to ask anyone's permission to change employers, you can freelance, you can start a business, you can work for multiple employers). You need to work full-time on OPT. I don't know how they check but you need to be prepared to prove that you're working full time. (I know about this because if you're freelancing, my school told that I need to keep extensive paper trail to prove that I'm employed.) There's limitations about how long you can be unemployed in the OPT. You need to register your company in E-verify for OPT extension. To register for e-verify you need tax ID numbers and a DUNS number as well. It's a pain but I was able to do it myself. (They make you study for a quiz, etc). You actually don't need to e-verify yourself. Just registering the company and getting an e-verify number was enough for us.
  • datacog 13y ago
    Hi, So I'm on F1 OPT stem extension which is about to end in June 2014. How to tackle things after the stem gets over? H1B sponsored by my company ?
    • eshvk 13y ago
      Once the stem is over, you need to switch to the H1B. Also if you were born in Canada, Singapore, Chile, Australia, things are easier.
      • datacog 13y ago
        Im from India. I will have to go on an H1B, even if I apply for a green card (EB2), it will take me 5 years with the current queue.
    • cylinder 13y ago
      You can use the OPT for this accelerator most likely, given it's related to your studies. What is your nationality?
    • cemregr 13y ago
• kvinnako 13y ago
  You can do this by filing H1B through a consulting company and start working for the startup as a contractor through the consulting company. One catch is that consulting company has to pay a minimum h1B salary for you which shouldn't be a problem if you do get into the accelerator. If you need help for filing H1B, let me know through email. Good luck.
• neilk 13y ago
  This is what most hackers want: - residence in the USA; - working for a small salary to cover expenses, - but with strong guarantees of equity (ownership or something like it) US immigration law is designed to stop all of this. Because for most other cases, that would mask shenanigans like a foreign worker undercutting a US competitor, or even a foreign worker being exploited. Bottom line, you may be able to hack this, but in doing so you will probably give someone else a lot of power over you. Even if you succeed, someone else may have the ability to extract a lot of that wealth you worked for. I happen to be Canadian, so living in my own country is not such a hardship and I still have access to US investors. This might be a thread derail, but how many people here would consider residing in Canada as an alternative? The country is much more friendly to immigration, and if you live in Vancouver, you're just a few hours from SFO or Seattle by air. Some Silicon Valley companies are starting up divisions in Vancouver for that reason. But maybe there could be a "Vancouver hacker house" doing the same thing for foreign entrepreneurs and startups.
  • tostitos1979 13y ago
    I'm a Canadian in the US. I'm exploring moving back to Canada . Specifically, I'm looking at the Toronto area. I'm not impressed by all the process around incubators and raising small amounts of funds. It is a bit discouraging. 1) The govt seems to be putting money into encouraging startups, which is great. The way they are doing it seems to be broken. The programs all require gatekeepers with silly processes (e.g. applying months before, talking about IP protection from the get go[this makes me think lawyers run the show]). 2) The govt programs mostly have lots of strings attached to how you can use the money. 3) Some accelerators charge people for "program delivery". WTF! 4) I make over 6 figures in the US. Toronto jobs seem to be paying around half my salary (60-70K). So if I screw up, I don't want my fallback option to be move back to the states. Here's an idea: any student who finishes a PhD or Masters from a Canadian school .. invest 30-50K in their company. Ask them for matching funds. Stipulate you can only use the funds for hiring employees. Anyways ... sorry for the random rant. I'm just really frustrated. I guess this is good training for when I'm in the trough of sorrow :-p
    • neilk 13y ago
• pclark 13y ago
  I do not think that the comments here are very good advice. I know a very good immigration attorney if you need one. Here are my two cents: * H1B hit its cap last year, probably hit its cap next year. It's a lottery if you'll get one – I know a lot of people that did not get them – It's also very hard to get a H1B if a) you own majority of the company, or b) if you have raised less than $500k. * I have never met anyone on the E5 visa. It's supposedly a complete nightmare, and takes forever to process. * The E-2 visa is good but it requires you investing significant capital – six figures – in your business. If you can do this, get this visa since it is the best one. * I know people that did not get the H1B and ended up working in USA on a J-1 visa: it's a crappy visa but might work, usually requires you to have more structure in the USA though. My advice is to get a good lawyer and get an O-1 visa. Everyone balks at this visa but if you match these requirements you are a long way towards it: * Have press about your startup (techcrunch etc) * Have been accepted in an accelerator * Have a degree * Can get 5 or 10 reference letters from customers / advisors / investors saying how great you are. One caveat is that again, you need six figures in the bank. Of all the visas though the O-1 is by far the nearest to an Entrepreneurs visa. I know dozens of people with them.
  • datacog 13y ago
    What are the odds of getting an O-1 ? Almost all of the entrepreneurs who get funded and get press would fit in the above criteria. Il drop you a dm.
• tahminawatson 13y ago
  http://watsonimmigration.wordpress.com/2011/08/09/h1b-visas-for-entrepreneurs-self-employed-h1b-visa/ http://watsonimmigration.wordpress.com/2011/08/09/h1b-visas-... Hi, if you are on your OPT and have an H1b pending, you can extend your OPT until October 1. Depends when in April your OPT expires but H1bs must be filed by April 1 so you could very well utilize that opportunity. Depending on the country of citizenship, you could consider an E2 visa also. I am a strong advocate for the Startup visa which would have helped you. I assist startup founders with visa options and would be happy to help.