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You are right. My point was that there not many petrol or gasoline powered turbocharged autos. Diesels powered autos are commonly turbocharged. In the USA, dies

by bliti 13y ago

You are right. My point was that there not many petrol or gasoline powered turbocharged autos. Diesels powered autos are commonly turbocharged. In the USA, diesel autos are not common. Thus, turbos are mostly seen in high-performance vehicles (like the 911, WRX, etc.).

cjrp 13y ago
Interesting. Is it hard to find gas stations which sell diesel over there as a result?
- maxerickson 13y ago
  Maybe a little harder. But we do a lot of shipping by truck, so there is diesel pretty much everywhere, just not at every station.
- bliti 13y ago
  Yes, there are less gas stations that sell Diesel. Most are located around common routes used by the shipping industry. Also, the requirements for Diesel fuel in the USA is different than in Europe. Plus the price of diesel is actually higher than gasoline. There is another phenomena around diesels in the USA. Which is the perception of the general population towards them. People often think of them as noisy, smelly, and unreliable autos. This due to the awful diesel engines produced by American auto manufacturers during the 70's and 80's. General Motors is the one to blame for the awful engineering and cost-cutting practices that led the public to see diesels as a non-option.
  - cjrp 13y ago
    Ah, I see. I believe there was a time here (England) when diesel was cheaper than petrol, but it's now a few pence/litre more. Presumably that's made up for with improved efficiency though. Funny how the perception of a technology can be tainted by poor implementation. I'm not sure how European diesels were in the past, but as long as I've bothered to pay attention (~10 years), diesel has been more popular here since fuel is so darn expensive. Will be interesting to see if the gain in popularity of Euro/Asian cars over there will have any effect on the number of diesels on the road.
    - alexkus 13y ago
      Diesel also has 1.17 times the energy density (by volume) of petrol/gasoline.
    - thrownaway2424 13y ago
      Diesel passenger car engines were pioneered by companies that market cars in Europe but not in America, like Peugeot/Citroën. That's why diesel popularity in Europe is 10-15 years ahead of where it is in America. The early diesel cars from companies that sell in America, like the VW Golf and the Mercedes 300, were just terrible cars.
  - thrownaway2424 13y ago
    Come now. American impressions of diesel cars were formed by the ghastly Mercedes cars of the 80s and the Volvo DL, both smokey and pokey and unreliable. It's taken many years to shake that reputation. It doesn't help that the manufacturers refuse to market the cars here. VW is really the only mark with good success selling diesel cars in the USA. It makes sense that diesel costs more because it contains more energy per unit volume and fuel is sold by volume.
    - gambiting 13y ago
      But then on the other hand, diesel requires less work to be done to get it than petrol(gasoline) does. Both arguments are perfectly valid. And most EU countries(with the stark exception of UK) have diesel a lot cheaper than petrol.
      - thrownaway2424 13y ago
        Define "a lot"? Here in Switzerland at least diesel is more (by about 7%, not a lot). Since most of the cost of fuel here is taxes, I assume the difference between petrol and diesel is also due to differential taxation. One of the things that has kept diesel out of the USA until recently is the diesel fuel was good enough for heavy trucks to meet truck emissions standards but wasn't good enough for diesel cars to meet car emissions standards. This wasn't the case in the EU for some years because truck emissions standards in EU are more strict and car emissions standards were less strict compared to California. Now that you can get ultra-low sulfur diesel in all 50 US states it is becoming easier to market diesel cars in the USA. But the new fuel standards (since 2010) also make diesel cost more.
        gambiting 13y ago
        >>Most EU countries >Here in Switzerland The last time I checked Switzerland was not in the EU.
        thrownaway2424 13y ago
  - stan_rogers 13y ago
    I think you'll find that it was actually the Rabbit (Golf) Diesel of the time that set the tone. It was (to put it mildly) a bit of a clatterbox, and it was (if I recall correctly) the Diesel one was most likely to see. And there was more than a little bit of trouble in winter as well in northern states (the fuel of the time would become like unto a solid block of paraffin at temperatures above those that normally lead to keeping a car with a block heater plugged in). GM didn't help (and Volvo certainly didn't hurt), but it wasn't the main culprit.
    - bliti 13y ago
      Yes, you are right. It was the Rabbit diesel that started damaging the public's perception of diesel. But then GM, Volvo, and Ford kept the "flame" alive during the 80s.
- ericcumbee 13y ago
  At least in Georgia, most gas stations also sell diesel. That could be a product of more people owning pickup trucks (some of them have Diesel engines) and the fact that I tend to live in a more agriculturally focused area.
fennecfoxen 13y ago
In reply to cjrp (whom I can't reply to directly, strangely enough) -- it's harder to find diesel in the US than plain gasoline/petrol, but not that hard. Most trucks here use diesel, after all, and many gas stations have at least one diesel pump. It's mostly the gas stations along the commuter corridors to little bedroom communities which are gasoline-only.
- Shivetya 13y ago
  truck pumps should not used to fuel cars, their flow rate is way to high and will cause damage if not bathe you in fuel. I haven't ever had an issue find low sulfur diesel on my travels, however I am mostly doing than East of the Mississippi.
  - fennecfoxen 13y ago
    Right about the truck pumps - I guess the main thing is that because trucks and other large diesel fuel consumers exist and are popular, the overall infrastructure for diesel, including refining and distribution networks, also exist. An individual pump is only a small part of that network.
CWuestefeld 13y ago
Splitting semantic hairs, but I'd say that turbocharged cars are quite common in the USA, although still greatly outnumbered by normally-aspirated ones. I've been driving various turbocharged cars for 20 years, and both cars in the garage right now have turbos. I'd be surprised if you could drive on a highway more than a couple of miles without seeing one. So, based on my own observation, I'd says that gas-powered turbocharged passenger cars are common yet still greatly outnumbered.

by bliti 13y ago

cjrp 13y ago

Interesting. Is it hard to find gas stations which sell diesel over there as a result?

maxerickson 13y ago
Maybe a little harder. But we do a lot of shipping by truck, so there is diesel pretty much everywhere, just not at every station.
bliti 13y ago
Yes, there are less gas stations that sell Diesel. Most are located around common routes used by the shipping industry. Also, the requirements for Diesel fuel in the USA is different than in Europe. Plus the price of diesel is actually higher than gasoline. There is another phenomena around diesels in the USA. Which is the perception of the general population towards them. People often think of them as noisy, smelly, and unreliable autos. This due to the awful diesel engines produced by American auto manufacturers during the 70's and 80's. General Motors is the one to blame for the awful engineering and cost-cutting practices that led the public to see diesels as a non-option.
- cjrp 13y ago
  Ah, I see. I believe there was a time here (England) when diesel was cheaper than petrol, but it's now a few pence/litre more. Presumably that's made up for with improved efficiency though. Funny how the perception of a technology can be tainted by poor implementation. I'm not sure how European diesels were in the past, but as long as I've bothered to pay attention (~10 years), diesel has been more popular here since fuel is so darn expensive. Will be interesting to see if the gain in popularity of Euro/Asian cars over there will have any effect on the number of diesels on the road.
  - alexkus 13y ago
    Diesel also has 1.17 times the energy density (by volume) of petrol/gasoline.
  - thrownaway2424 13y ago
    Diesel passenger car engines were pioneered by companies that market cars in Europe but not in America, like Peugeot/Citroën. That's why diesel popularity in Europe is 10-15 years ahead of where it is in America. The early diesel cars from companies that sell in America, like the VW Golf and the Mercedes 300, were just terrible cars.
- thrownaway2424 13y ago
  Come now. American impressions of diesel cars were formed by the ghastly Mercedes cars of the 80s and the Volvo DL, both smokey and pokey and unreliable. It's taken many years to shake that reputation. It doesn't help that the manufacturers refuse to market the cars here. VW is really the only mark with good success selling diesel cars in the USA. It makes sense that diesel costs more because it contains more energy per unit volume and fuel is sold by volume.
  - gambiting 13y ago
    But then on the other hand, diesel requires less work to be done to get it than petrol(gasoline) does. Both arguments are perfectly valid. And most EU countries(with the stark exception of UK) have diesel a lot cheaper than petrol.
    - thrownaway2424 13y ago
      Define "a lot"? Here in Switzerland at least diesel is more (by about 7%, not a lot). Since most of the cost of fuel here is taxes, I assume the difference between petrol and diesel is also due to differential taxation. One of the things that has kept diesel out of the USA until recently is the diesel fuel was good enough for heavy trucks to meet truck emissions standards but wasn't good enough for diesel cars to meet car emissions standards. This wasn't the case in the EU for some years because truck emissions standards in EU are more strict and car emissions standards were less strict compared to California. Now that you can get ultra-low sulfur diesel in all 50 US states it is becoming easier to market diesel cars in the USA. But the new fuel standards (since 2010) also make diesel cost more.
      - gambiting 13y ago
        >>Most EU countries >Here in Switzerland The last time I checked Switzerland was not in the EU.
        thrownaway2424 13y ago
- stan_rogers 13y ago
  I think you'll find that it was actually the Rabbit (Golf) Diesel of the time that set the tone. It was (to put it mildly) a bit of a clatterbox, and it was (if I recall correctly) the Diesel one was most likely to see. And there was more than a little bit of trouble in winter as well in northern states (the fuel of the time would become like unto a solid block of paraffin at temperatures above those that normally lead to keeping a car with a block heater plugged in). GM didn't help (and Volvo certainly didn't hurt), but it wasn't the main culprit.
  - bliti 13y ago
    Yes, you are right. It was the Rabbit diesel that started damaging the public's perception of diesel. But then GM, Volvo, and Ford kept the "flame" alive during the 80s.
ericcumbee 13y ago
At least in Georgia, most gas stations also sell diesel. That could be a product of more people owning pickup trucks (some of them have Diesel engines) and the fact that I tend to live in a more agriculturally focused area.

fennecfoxen 13y ago

In reply to cjrp (whom I can't reply to directly, strangely enough) -- it's harder to find diesel in the US than plain gasoline/petrol, but not that hard. Most trucks here use diesel, after all, and many gas stations have at least one diesel pump. It's mostly the gas stations along the commuter corridors to little bedroom communities which are gasoline-only.

Shivetya 13y ago
truck pumps should not used to fuel cars, their flow rate is way to high and will cause damage if not bathe you in fuel. I haven't ever had an issue find low sulfur diesel on my travels, however I am mostly doing than East of the Mississippi.
- fennecfoxen 13y ago
  Right about the truck pumps - I guess the main thing is that because trucks and other large diesel fuel consumers exist and are popular, the overall infrastructure for diesel, including refining and distribution networks, also exist. An individual pump is only a small part of that network.

CWuestefeld 13y ago

Splitting semantic hairs, but I'd say that turbocharged cars are quite common in the USA, although still greatly outnumbered by normally-aspirated ones. I've been driving various turbocharged cars for 20 years, and both cars in the garage right now have turbos. I'd be surprised if you could drive on a highway more than a couple of miles without seeing one. So, based on my own observation, I'd says that gas-powered turbocharged passenger cars are common yet still greatly outnumbered.