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> But do they have to limit fuel. Does the advantage of the turbo outweigh more pitstops? Refueling is not allowed in Formula 1, it has only been allowed durin

by exDM69 13y ago

> But do they have to limit fuel. Does the advantage of the turbo outweigh more pitstops? Refueling is not allowed in Formula 1, it has only been allowed during two brief stints in the early 1980s and late 1990s. It was/is silly dangerous and there were a few quite nasty pitstop fire incidents. One goal of the new regulations with the turbo, the regenerative braking and the fuel limit is to put emphasis on the efficiency of the engines. The engine manufacturer with the best efficiency is at an advantage. There's a risk that this will introduce boring fuel saving periods to races. But on the other hand the fuel limit is the same for everyone. If you look at this from a different perspective, there will periods where you can crank up the boost and mixture to allow for more power at the cost of more than average fuel consumption.

masklinn 13y ago
> Refueling is not allowed in Formula 1, it has only been allowed during two brief stints in the early 1980s and late 1990s. Brief? It was allowed from 1994 to 2009, and the official reason for removing it in 2010 was team expenses (they had to move expensive speed-refueling machinery around the world, and highly trained pit staff to match)
- exDM69 13y ago
  Brief in the sense that for most of the history of F1, refueling has not been allowed.
  - jackgavigan 13y ago
    That's not strictly true. Refuelling was allowed (or, more accurately, it wasn't banned) from 1950 (the first F1 world championship) thru 1983. Fangio did a deliberate pitstop during his famous win at the Nürburgring in 1957 [1]. However, it appears that it wasn't until 1983 that a team (Brabham) deliberately built a car with a tank too small to hold enough fuel to finish a race [2]. Brabham went on to win the 1983 championship and refuelling was banned from 1984. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957_German_Grand_Prix http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957_German_Grand_Prix [2]: http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/refueling.html http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/refueling.html
  - masklinn 13y ago
    Refueling was only banned in 1984, it was allowed before that. So using the historical argument, it's the refueling ban whose stint has been brief (1984 - 1993, and 2010 - ?)
    - bronson 13y ago
      Sounds like a disagreement over whether one is referring to the act of refueling or the refueling rule. Both mid-race refueling and the refueling rule have had brief stints.
po 13y ago
One search youtube for 'f1 fuel fire' for some examples of how it can be dangerous but this is a good example of what you're talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdyuN_cUqjA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdyuN_cUqjA I don't think F1 had this problem but with some races the fuel is made with methanol and the flames can be impossible to see: http://boingboing.net/2010/11/03/its-hard-to-fight-a.html http://boingboing.net/2010/11/03/its-hard-to-fight-a.html
- exDM69 13y ago
  That video of Jos Verstappen's pitstop fire is quite disturbing. That fire was partially caused by the fueling rig that had been tampered by removing a filter to allow faster refueling. Here's another disturbing pitstop fire of Heikki Kovalainen leaving the pit stall with the fueling hose still attached and the fuel gets sprayed on his compatriot Kimi Räikkönen, who went on to finish the race in 5th spot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvgjhfQLTNk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvgjhfQLTNk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzg_9UXo9s8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzg_9UXo9s8 Trying to refuel 50 liters (15 gallons) or more in less than 10 seconds is bound to be dangerous.

by exDM69 13y ago

masklinn 13y ago

> Refueling is not allowed in Formula 1, it has only been allowed during two brief stints in the early 1980s and late 1990s. Brief? It was allowed from 1994 to 2009, and the official reason for removing it in 2010 was team expenses (they had to move expensive speed-refueling machinery around the world, and highly trained pit staff to match)

exDM69 13y ago
Brief in the sense that for most of the history of F1, refueling has not been allowed.
- jackgavigan 13y ago
  That's not strictly true. Refuelling was allowed (or, more accurately, it wasn't banned) from 1950 (the first F1 world championship) thru 1983. Fangio did a deliberate pitstop during his famous win at the Nürburgring in 1957 [1]. However, it appears that it wasn't until 1983 that a team (Brabham) deliberately built a car with a tank too small to hold enough fuel to finish a race [2]. Brabham went on to win the 1983 championship and refuelling was banned from 1984. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957_German_Grand_Prix http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957_German_Grand_Prix [2]: http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/refueling.html http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/refueling.html
- masklinn 13y ago
  Refueling was only banned in 1984, it was allowed before that. So using the historical argument, it's the refueling ban whose stint has been brief (1984 - 1993, and 2010 - ?)
  - bronson 13y ago
    Sounds like a disagreement over whether one is referring to the act of refueling or the refueling rule. Both mid-race refueling and the refueling rule have had brief stints.

po 13y ago

One search youtube for 'f1 fuel fire' for some examples of how it can be dangerous but this is a good example of what you're talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdyuN_cUqjA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdyuN_cUqjA I don't think F1 had this problem but with some races the fuel is made with methanol and the flames can be impossible to see: http://boingboing.net/2010/11/03/its-hard-to-fight-a.html http://boingboing.net/2010/11/03/its-hard-to-fight-a.html

exDM69 13y ago
That video of Jos Verstappen's pitstop fire is quite disturbing. That fire was partially caused by the fueling rig that had been tampered by removing a filter to allow faster refueling. Here's another disturbing pitstop fire of Heikki Kovalainen leaving the pit stall with the fueling hose still attached and the fuel gets sprayed on his compatriot Kimi Räikkönen, who went on to finish the race in 5th spot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvgjhfQLTNk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvgjhfQLTNk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzg_9UXo9s8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzg_9UXo9s8 Trying to refuel 50 liters (15 gallons) or more in less than 10 seconds is bound to be dangerous.