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I seriously doubt preferences for lipstick and nail polish are genetic. For most of human evolution, there were no such things around.
by knowitall 13y ago
I seriously doubt preferences for lipstick and nail polish are genetic. For most of human evolution, there were no such things around.
- icebraining 13y agoWell, one could have genetic differences that lead to those preferences; it doesn't have to be an encoded preference for a particular type of object. For example, a genetic predisposition towards competition and physical activity could lead to a general preference for certain kinds of sports, even if those didn't exist for most of human evolution. In case you haven't noticed, I'm talking out of my ass here, I have no idea if this is true, it just seems a reasonable possibility.
- V-2 13y agoYes, and similarly the fear of falling off the roof of a tall building can't be genetic at all, given that for most of human evolution there were no skyscrapers around :)
- knowitall 13y agoSeriously? Monkeys live on trees... Mountains exist for longer than humans.
- spuz 13y agoHis point is not that fear of falling is learnt by visiting tall buildings but that the logic of his argument is the same as yours. If you can find the flaw in his argument then you should be able to find the flaw in your own.
- knowitall 13y agoHelp me out then, because I don't see it? A fall is deadly, whether you fall from a skyscraper or a tree. You mean there might have been something else like nail polish, and people evolved a preference for that? But what would that have been? Some meshed up leaves people put on their finger nails? Apparently there is something like a preference for being a woman, and using nail polish can be a proxy for that. But my point is that it is most likely learned that nail polish has something to do with being a woman. And the mechanism is not "I wish I was a woman so that I could use nail polish", it is more likely "I wish I could be a woman, and nail polish makes me feel like one". Nevertheless, I am also not a biologist, just making things up. But I think some basic logic can be applied by everyone.
- tomp 13y agoNail polish -> healthy nails -> healthy body -> lots of resources & good genetics. Lipstick -> red lips -> sexual symbol (looks similar to vaginal labia) -> more reproductive choice
- knowitall 13y agoSure, I get that, as I also wrote here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6839794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6839794 But those are messages for the men, not for the woman who applies the lipstick. So is the desire basically to be sexually attractive like a woman? Or falling in love with one's reflection in the mirror?
- V-2 13y agoI find it fairly obvious that natural seating contest must have worked in favor of women more inclined to beautify themselves (whether out of vanity or something else, doesn't matter at all).
- knowitall 13y agoSure, but doesn't that mean that we agree there is no genetic disposition towards liking nail polish/lipstick? The reason people like lipstick is not that they have a genetic disposition to like lipstick, it's because lipstick fakes a sexual signal.
- nailer 13y agoMany species have gender based preening habits, either male of female. It doesn't seem surprising that humans may do the same.
- knowitall 13y agoMaybe, but my point is that lipstick and nail polish are very likely learned preferences. Perhaps there is some mechanism by which a child picks the people it learns it's preferences from. I've read for example that kids learn their beauty ideals from the people that surround them, but there is also a taboo to not fall in love with closely related people. For example researchers looked at people living in a Kibuz and found that there were hardly any love affairs among them.
- nailer 13y agoI think it's a learned /expression/ of reproductive signalling. I think of lipstick as just a human equivalent of a monkey with a big red butt (which is natural, but doesn't serve any purpose other than to let other monkeys know they're in heat). They're human ways of drawing attention to sexuality. In our society we can't paint our genitals, so we paint another set of lips. Or our fingernails, etc. When a child picks lipstick, however, they're not being sexual, just emulating adults. They same way they copy adults tone (ever heard a kid 'scold' another kid, the same way their parents would?) Most infant animals do that too.
- frooxie 13y agoI'm not going to argue for a genetic preference for lipstick and nail polish, but in the case of trucks and dolls, that could plausibly be based on differing genetic preferences for, say, Large Moving Things vs Human Interaction, or something, despite trucks and dolls not having been around for long.