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Well put. I would add that there are more similarities between a master mechanic and a skilled applications/systems programmer than people usually recognize.

by javanix 17y ago

Well put. I would add that there are more similarities between a master mechanic and a skilled applications/systems programmer than people usually recognize. Both professions require similar amounts of schooling (Two years at a tech/vocational school versus four at a university, but I would argue that there are only about two years worth of CS classes that are really necessary for programming success), and both deal with large, similarly complex systems that need to be known equally well for success. I would even go so far as to argue that the same "type" of mind gravitates to both professions - differing socioeconomic pressures just nudge people in different directions.

geebee 17y ago
I definitely agree that some of the manual "vocations," such as electrician or plumber are really great trades, and are ideal careers for a certain personality type. Some people really need to work with their hands, and just can't abide a cubicle. I wouldn't deter my kid from these trades either. That said, I think CS is pretty far from these fields. It's a little hard to say, because I don't have a background in these vocations, but in some ways I think they have more in common with nursing or even medicine. There's a required and tightly enforced educational background, formal licensing, and apprenticeship, and when you leave, you really are prepared (again, I presume) for practice. Truth is, we have no such thing in programming. CS really doesn't prepare you to be a programmer. While I suppose some things in programming are becoming standardized, there ultimately is no agreement on fairly basic things. As five programmers to write a webapp, and I mean a simple, two page, database driven crud app, and you'll get five very different implementations. There really is no accepted way of doing things for us, not on the level of a formal vocation. Of course, I say this not really knowing. For all I know, electricians graduate from their apprenticeship, show up a their first job, and figure it all out for the first time like programmers do.) I sure hope not, though ;)
- javanix 17y ago
  I agree that most of CS is far more freeform than these professions, but I mentioned systems/applications programmers for a reason. They need to write their software to behave compatibly with certain system restraints, and thus don't have quite the freedom afforded to web app developers and their fairly lax-by-comparison set of browser requirements. Granted, the similarities only go so far - being a mechanic is far more diagnostic and enhancing of the underlying system than being a programmer is (and hence, as you said, probably closer to the medical profession). However, a mechanic's ability to diagnose issues based on the subtlest of clues seems fairly close, at least in my experience, to a skilled programmer's ability to track down a quirky bug - both are based almost entirely on their exhaustive knowledge of the underlying system. The medical field's underlying system is biologic rather than mechanical in nature - hence most of the diagnostics have to be based on generic tests that are variably reliable (at least now, prior to surely-forthcoming genomic advances in medicine), rather than solely intuition and experience.
wlievens 17y ago
Quite true. My brother is an audio technician, he does recordings for bands as well as the technical work in setting up studio's and such. He knows almost nothing of programming and little of theoretical mathematics (outside that which he uses) yet when I talk with him about anything technical, I keep noticing he has the programmer/engineer/hacker/geek mind. People with a passion for anything technical tend to intuit concepts like abstraction and logic, even without being taught explicitly.

by javanix 17y ago

geebee 17y ago

I definitely agree that some of the manual "vocations," such as electrician or plumber are really great trades, and are ideal careers for a certain personality type. Some people really need to work with their hands, and just can't abide a cubicle. I wouldn't deter my kid from these trades either. That said, I think CS is pretty far from these fields. It's a little hard to say, because I don't have a background in these vocations, but in some ways I think they have more in common with nursing or even medicine. There's a required and tightly enforced educational background, formal licensing, and apprenticeship, and when you leave, you really are prepared (again, I presume) for practice. Truth is, we have no such thing in programming. CS really doesn't prepare you to be a programmer. While I suppose some things in programming are becoming standardized, there ultimately is no agreement on fairly basic things. As five programmers to write a webapp, and I mean a simple, two page, database driven crud app, and you'll get five very different implementations. There really is no accepted way of doing things for us, not on the level of a formal vocation. Of course, I say this not really knowing. For all I know, electricians graduate from their apprenticeship, show up a their first job, and figure it all out for the first time like programmers do.) I sure hope not, though ;)

javanix 17y ago
I agree that most of CS is far more freeform than these professions, but I mentioned systems/applications programmers for a reason. They need to write their software to behave compatibly with certain system restraints, and thus don't have quite the freedom afforded to web app developers and their fairly lax-by-comparison set of browser requirements. Granted, the similarities only go so far - being a mechanic is far more diagnostic and enhancing of the underlying system than being a programmer is (and hence, as you said, probably closer to the medical profession). However, a mechanic's ability to diagnose issues based on the subtlest of clues seems fairly close, at least in my experience, to a skilled programmer's ability to track down a quirky bug - both are based almost entirely on their exhaustive knowledge of the underlying system. The medical field's underlying system is biologic rather than mechanical in nature - hence most of the diagnostics have to be based on generic tests that are variably reliable (at least now, prior to surely-forthcoming genomic advances in medicine), rather than solely intuition and experience.

wlievens 17y ago

Quite true. My brother is an audio technician, he does recordings for bands as well as the technical work in setting up studio's and such. He knows almost nothing of programming and little of theoretical mathematics (outside that which he uses) yet when I talk with him about anything technical, I keep noticing he has the programmer/engineer/hacker/geek mind. People with a passion for anything technical tend to intuit concepts like abstraction and logic, even without being taught explicitly.