5 ms·

The end of classical music

14 points by Schiphol 13y ago

al2o3cr 13y ago
No doubt there were people in 1786 complaining about how that upstart Mozart was convincing "the kids" to stop going to revivals of "1550's Greatest Hits". And don't even get them STARTED on the filth that is "opera"...
- vixen99 13y ago
  You're joking I suppose but there is plenty of doubt that there were such people. Zero evidence I would say.
  - vincetogo 13y ago
    "Too many notes, Mozart!"
vezzy-fnord 13y ago
What ostentatious and reactionary puerility this is. No doubt the author is aggravated by the perceived decadence and decline of contemporary popular music. Yet, what is popular has for the most part always been mediocre or subpar. The 'classical' (a very generalized descriptor, and completely inaccurate to contrast with 'rock and popular music') music he so yearns for was predominantly enjoyed by the aristocracy of its day and wasn't intended for the common layman. He also comfortably ignores all the hack composers who were likely forgotten and their legacies erased, instead only pointing out one of the three most undoubtedly famous. His main argument for advocating classical music is its focus on instrumentals and "a logic entirely based on the abstract relationships inherent in the pitches and rhythms." There are many (admittedly postmodern, likely much to the chagrin of the author) tendencies and genres in today's music, such as avant-garde jazz, noise, progressive rock and so on, which also employ eclecticism and complexity on a scale that trumps famous, beaten-to-death classical composers. Of course, these genres aren't popular, but that is to be expected. This is simply another example of leftist academic snobbery.
- rotten 13y ago
  What makes it "leftist"? I think it is just snobbery.
  - vezzy-fnord 13y ago
    The magazine is openly left-wing, as specified in their "About Us" page. In hindsight, the political slant is irrelevant, though leftism is typical of academia.
- vixen99 13y ago
  'Yet, what is popular has for the most part always been mediocre or subpar.'. What, on your say? You might want to take a look at 'The Culture of the Europeans' by Donald Sassoon to see how wrong you are.
- Schiphol 13y ago
  >His main argument for advocating classical music is its focus on instrumentals and "a logic entirely based on the abstract relationships inherent in the pitches and rhythms." >There are many (admittedly postmodern, likely much to the chagrin of the author) tendencies and genres in today's music, such as avant-garde jazz, noise, progressive rock and so on, which also employ eclecticism and complexity on a scale that trumps famous, beaten-to-death classical composers. Of course, these genres aren't popular, but that is to be expected. Your appeal to eclecticism makes me think that you are not focusing on the feature of classical music the author has in mind. He means, I think, the kind of formal "problem-solving" that one can find in (to cite a comparatively recent example) the [Fugue in Hindemith's 3rd Piano Sonata](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTpAIEp6DUo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTpAIEp6DUo). Such very elaborated formal structures are much less important in rock or avant-garde jazz. They are also very hard to write, and comparatively hard to decode as a listener. But they are very rewarding once you sort of get them. Isn't all of that true?
  - vezzy-fnord 13y ago
    I listened to your example, and yes I can see what you are referring to. The sonata is complex and involves lots of nuances and subsystems playing together to form a coherent, yet intricate and sophisticated whole. The "problem-solving" technique you mention is still, I believe, very much present in my aforementioned genres. They're definitely not accessible to everyone, however, especially the casual listener. That is true.
Dirlewanger 13y ago
Pretentious moron whining about a cultural facet that's recently fallen out of favor and how society is done for, more at 11.
auggierose 13y ago
Wow, these comments are really frightening. No wonder contemporary software is so shitty, and programmers are clueless as hell.
- krisdol 13y ago
  HN libertarians don't like to be made to feel academically inadequate. Startups care not about this art crap, and the author is obviously not aware of unpopular sub-genres of rock, many of which kick Chopin's ass, so to speak.
- jdbernard 13y ago
  > Wow, these comments are really frightening. How so? Also can you explain the connection you are drawing between the comments and the quality of modern software and programmers?
singold 13y ago
> Its author, New York Times religion correspondent Mark Oppenheimer concedes that “(s)tudying music or dance over a long time teaches perseverance and can build self-confidence” and “that there is virtue in mastering difficult disciplines.” This could be said of programming too About classical music, because a coincidence, I've downloaded lots of classical music and found out that it helps me greatly to concentrate while I'm studying. I like it, I would probably want to learn more about it (if and when I have time), but I dont want to become an expert and be pedantic about it.
holychiz 13y ago
Classical music is alive and well. It's also evolving, as it should. You might find it camouflaged as sountracks. Witness the "views" numbers on Youtube of "Inception" or any "epic music", they're in the millions.
- thrownaway2424 13y ago
  Hollywood movie scores are essentially pornographic. There's little to challenge the logic or problem-solving areas of your mind. There are lots of loud sounds and nakedly manipulative melodies. Naturally there are exceptions but I'm referring to your basic Hans Zimmer product, which is garbage.
  - hackinthebochs 13y ago
    The same can be said for most popular classical pieces. As someone who mostly listens to classical, I'm not even sure your characterization carries any meaning. But lets not elevate classical music to some rarefied pedestal; the vast majority of the good classical music contains "loud sounds and nakedly manipulative melodies".

14 points by Schiphol 13y ago

No doubt there were people in 1786 complaining about how that upstart Mozart was convincing "the kids" to stop going to revivals of "1550's Greatest Hits". And don't even get them STARTED on the filth that is "opera"...

vixen99 13y ago
You're joking I suppose but there is plenty of doubt that there were such people. Zero evidence I would say.
- vincetogo 13y ago
  "Too many notes, Mozart!"

vezzy-fnord 13y ago

What ostentatious and reactionary puerility this is. No doubt the author is aggravated by the perceived decadence and decline of contemporary popular music. Yet, what is popular has for the most part always been mediocre or subpar. The 'classical' (a very generalized descriptor, and completely inaccurate to contrast with 'rock and popular music') music he so yearns for was predominantly enjoyed by the aristocracy of its day and wasn't intended for the common layman. He also comfortably ignores all the hack composers who were likely forgotten and their legacies erased, instead only pointing out one of the three most undoubtedly famous. His main argument for advocating classical music is its focus on instrumentals and "a logic entirely based on the abstract relationships inherent in the pitches and rhythms." There are many (admittedly postmodern, likely much to the chagrin of the author) tendencies and genres in today's music, such as avant-garde jazz, noise, progressive rock and so on, which also employ eclecticism and complexity on a scale that trumps famous, beaten-to-death classical composers. Of course, these genres aren't popular, but that is to be expected. This is simply another example of leftist academic snobbery.

rotten 13y ago
What makes it "leftist"? I think it is just snobbery.
- vezzy-fnord 13y ago
  The magazine is openly left-wing, as specified in their "About Us" page. In hindsight, the political slant is irrelevant, though leftism is typical of academia.
vixen99 13y ago
'Yet, what is popular has for the most part always been mediocre or subpar.'. What, on your say? You might want to take a look at 'The Culture of the Europeans' by Donald Sassoon to see how wrong you are.
Schiphol 13y ago
>His main argument for advocating classical music is its focus on instrumentals and "a logic entirely based on the abstract relationships inherent in the pitches and rhythms." >There are many (admittedly postmodern, likely much to the chagrin of the author) tendencies and genres in today's music, such as avant-garde jazz, noise, progressive rock and so on, which also employ eclecticism and complexity on a scale that trumps famous, beaten-to-death classical composers. Of course, these genres aren't popular, but that is to be expected. Your appeal to eclecticism makes me think that you are not focusing on the feature of classical music the author has in mind. He means, I think, the kind of formal "problem-solving" that one can find in (to cite a comparatively recent example) the [Fugue in Hindemith's 3rd Piano Sonata](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTpAIEp6DUo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTpAIEp6DUo). Such very elaborated formal structures are much less important in rock or avant-garde jazz. They are also very hard to write, and comparatively hard to decode as a listener. But they are very rewarding once you sort of get them. Isn't all of that true?
- vezzy-fnord 13y ago
  I listened to your example, and yes I can see what you are referring to. The sonata is complex and involves lots of nuances and subsystems playing together to form a coherent, yet intricate and sophisticated whole. The "problem-solving" technique you mention is still, I believe, very much present in my aforementioned genres. They're definitely not accessible to everyone, however, especially the casual listener. That is true.

Dirlewanger 13y ago

Pretentious moron whining about a cultural facet that's recently fallen out of favor and how society is done for, more at 11.

auggierose 13y ago

Wow, these comments are really frightening. No wonder contemporary software is so shitty, and programmers are clueless as hell.

krisdol 13y ago
HN libertarians don't like to be made to feel academically inadequate. Startups care not about this art crap, and the author is obviously not aware of unpopular sub-genres of rock, many of which kick Chopin's ass, so to speak.
jdbernard 13y ago
> Wow, these comments are really frightening. How so? Also can you explain the connection you are drawing between the comments and the quality of modern software and programmers?

singold 13y ago

> Its author, New York Times religion correspondent Mark Oppenheimer concedes that “(s)tudying music or dance over a long time teaches perseverance and can build self-confidence” and “that there is virtue in mastering difficult disciplines.” This could be said of programming too About classical music, because a coincidence, I've downloaded lots of classical music and found out that it helps me greatly to concentrate while I'm studying. I like it, I would probably want to learn more about it (if and when I have time), but I dont want to become an expert and be pedantic about it.

holychiz 13y ago

Classical music is alive and well. It's also evolving, as it should. You might find it camouflaged as sountracks. Witness the "views" numbers on Youtube of "Inception" or any "epic music", they're in the millions.

thrownaway2424 13y ago
Hollywood movie scores are essentially pornographic. There's little to challenge the logic or problem-solving areas of your mind. There are lots of loud sounds and nakedly manipulative melodies. Naturally there are exceptions but I'm referring to your basic Hans Zimmer product, which is garbage.
- hackinthebochs 13y ago
  The same can be said for most popular classical pieces. As someone who mostly listens to classical, I'm not even sure your characterization carries any meaning. But lets not elevate classical music to some rarefied pedestal; the vast majority of the good classical music contains "loud sounds and nakedly manipulative melodies".